Much younger I should think, Rosa. My father would be 104 now!
Enjoyed the story, Frank, and certainly agree with you about the dazzling good looks. Mind you, someone on another thread admired my 'gorgeous' dogs today but did not apply the same term to their owner!!! Please do not comment on this - you'd have to lie!
Now there is a word Class, working , upper, lower, sink estate what, and what does it mean. People who have parents who can afford the uniforms books and kit after passing the 11+ or kids who had to leave school at 12-13 and pull themselves up by the boot straps, someone born with a silver spoon in the mouth or the idiot Son of Lord and lady so and so. As Northener's we tend to ignore the word though there were those who would lower themselves when a Sir or Lady appeared and that was often in our village. Having parents who could afford to keep me in school and a very good idea where I was heading was my way ahead but did that mean we were above others to my mind not, you take your chances and risks with some luck some management it gets you a comfortable retirement end of rant.
Frank, if I were to rant about class, which is no longer supposed to matter, I'd talk about how unfairly it affects one's progress in life. Americans have a meritocracy, where you are judged on your achievements, especially money, but since there is no equal playing field and underprivileged kids have little chance of making it, they have not really eradicated class distinction. They have just created a new kind of class distinction. We are still hidebound by old distinctions. I taught kids who had no chance at all - bound in ignorance and poverty and abandoned by the educational system. Nothing serious was done to help them. They were in classrooms but did not know even basic things that parents teach their children. I taught one girl, perhaps the most deprived individual I have ever met, who was so physically and emotionally neglected that she only knew how to say 'Uh!' She was about 12 or 13. At the other end of the spectrum are the gently and beautifully brought up children of the upper middle classes who have all the social graces and the best education. There are other kinds of deprivation, of course, which apply to all classes, like emotional and sexual abuse. There! Rant over!
Definately working class here , dad left school at 15 to go down the pits in salford to help provide for the home .... He upped himself later but we are working class and proud .
I don't believe in 'class' as its put. I think its your choice as to what you can achieve in life. I find it a little insulting that the 'Upper middle class' are said to have the social grace and the best education. My father worked on a farm from the age of 13 as a herd, full time. My mother stayed with her adopted mother in a house of an elderly gentleman who they both cared for. 4 generations ago all our fortunes, land, property and businesses were left to the church of Scotland because my distant relation did not agree with 'class' back then. I am from working stock, I myself have worked since I was 14. Under my choice. My siblings and myself have social graces and we had a good education. My sister is a wedding gown designer, my brother a chief mechanic and myself a silversmith and run my own business in the motorcycle industry. I was the first person in our family to fly on a plane, go abroad and go to university. I have an hons degree and a standard degree as well as an HNC and 3 HND's. I am a strong believer that its not all down to money and certainly not class. You have a goal in life. You follow a path which has detours which are set there for you to learn the skills and gain the knowledge and wisdom that you will need for the future. A basic understanding and manners lie with the parents before anything. My parts were of lower working class if I am to label them, which hurts me to do so as I feel its segregating them from everyone else. I'm proud of where I come from and look at my parents everyday and think how proud I am of them both. My father has now retired from his 28 years successful business due to ill health and my mother is a self taught head chef for a restaurant/bistro in Edinburgh. Some of the rudest, most arrogant people I have ever met have come from 'middle' and 'upper' class. Now if it were all to do with class...they wouldn't be where they are today!
You need to have the full facts on someone's else's history and feelings ..... You are from working stock ...stock/class/status /upbringingwhatever its roots . Doesn't mean we stay there ...someone's belief of working class will be different to mine . I know what mine is and my beliefs and my belief of others .
As you say, Bunny, beliefs about class differ and I quite agree that character, not class, is what matters. To be proud of your origins and to value what you learn is a great asset in life, whatever your class. I have a 'posh' daughter in law who had a privileged upbringing from wonderful parents and she is proud of that, too. She married my 'working class educated' son and loves him to bits. Upper crust people and 'working class' people are both capable of rudeness - they tend to do it in different ways, that's all.
What really unites us on this forum is that we are gardeners and here this surmounts every other difference of class and creed. We will be kind and respectful to each other. I really appreciate the peolple I've been in contact with on this forumand have personal experience of Sam's generosity and grace. Rants are fine as long as we keep our sense of humour and mutual respect.
Posts
Much younger I should think, Rosa. My father would be 104 now!
Enjoyed the story, Frank, and certainly agree with you about the dazzling good looks. Mind you, someone on another thread admired my 'gorgeous' dogs today but did not apply the same term to their owner!!! Please do not comment on this - you'd have to lie!
Now there is a word Class, working , upper, lower, sink estate what, and what does it mean.
People who have parents who can afford the uniforms books and kit after passing the 11+ or kids who had to leave school at 12-13 and pull themselves up by the boot straps, someone born with a silver spoon in the mouth or the idiot Son of Lord and lady so and so.
As Northener's we tend to ignore the word though there were those who would lower themselves when a Sir or Lady appeared and that was often in our village. Having parents who could afford to keep me in school and a very good idea where I was heading was my way ahead but did that mean we were above others to my mind not, you take your chances and risks with some luck some management it gets you a comfortable retirement end of rant.
Frank.
My dad would be 101
And me only 29. Amazing!
Frank, if I were to rant about class, which is no longer supposed to matter, I'd talk about how unfairly it affects one's progress in life. Americans have a meritocracy, where you are judged on your achievements, especially money, but since there is no equal playing field and underprivileged kids have little chance of making it, they have not really eradicated class distinction. They have just created a new kind of class distinction. We are still hidebound by old distinctions. I taught kids who had no chance at all - bound in ignorance and poverty and abandoned by the educational system. Nothing serious was done to help them. They were in classrooms but did not know even basic things that parents teach their children. I taught one girl, perhaps the most deprived individual I have ever met, who was so physically and emotionally neglected that she only knew how to say 'Uh!' She was about 12 or 13. At the other end of the spectrum are the gently and beautifully brought up children of the upper middle classes who have all the social graces and the best education. There are other kinds of deprivation, of course, which apply to all classes, like emotional and sexual abuse. There! Rant over!
Me too.
I don't believe in 'class' as its put. I think its your choice as to what you can achieve in life. I find it a little insulting that the 'Upper middle class' are said to have the social grace and the best education. My father worked on a farm from the age of 13 as a herd, full time. My mother stayed with her adopted mother in a house of an elderly gentleman who they both cared for. 4 generations ago all our fortunes, land, property and businesses were left to the church of Scotland because my distant relation did not agree with 'class' back then. I am from working stock, I myself have worked since I was 14. Under my choice. My siblings and myself have social graces and we had a good education. My sister is a wedding gown designer, my brother a chief mechanic and myself a silversmith and run my own business in the motorcycle industry. I was the first person in our family to fly on a plane, go abroad and go to university. I have an hons degree and a standard degree as well as an HNC and 3 HND's. I am a strong believer that its not all down to money and certainly not class. You have a goal in life. You follow a path which has detours which are set there for you to learn the skills and gain the knowledge and wisdom that you will need for the future. A basic understanding and manners lie with the parents before anything. My parts were of lower working class if I am to label them, which hurts me to do so as I feel its segregating them from everyone else. I'm proud of where I come from and look at my parents everyday and think how proud I am of them both. My father has now retired from his 28 years successful business due to ill health and my mother is a self taught head chef for a restaurant/bistro in Edinburgh. Some of the rudest, most arrogant people I have ever met have come from 'middle' and 'upper' class. Now if it were all to do with class...they wouldn't be where they are today!
Sorry...but it really gets my blood boiling
I understand what you mean Bunny. I kind of went off on a rant there in my own direction
As you say, Bunny, beliefs about class differ and I quite agree that character, not class, is what matters. To be proud of your origins and to value what you learn is a great asset in life, whatever your class. I have a 'posh' daughter in law who had a privileged upbringing from wonderful parents and she is proud of that, too. She married my 'working class educated' son and loves him to bits. Upper crust people and 'working class' people are both capable of rudeness - they tend to do it in different ways, that's all.
What really unites us on this forum is that we are gardeners and here this surmounts every other difference of class and creed. We will be kind and respectful to each other. I really appreciate the peolple I've been in contact with on this forumand have personal experience of Sam's generosity and grace. Rants are fine as long as we keep our sense of humour and mutual respect.