Without this stuff we all despise, many of us would not be alive.
Glass IV bottles, 1 in 1000 uses serious air embolism. Plastic IV bags, no air embolism.
Old giving sets [ connect patient to IV device ] rubber, multiple cases of severe allergic reactions. Modern giving sets, hypoallergenic plastic.
Heart valves.......plastic. Hip replacements, metal/plastic/ teflon.
Are you seriously suggesting that anyone despises heart valves, glass bottles, IVs or hip replacements? We all use plastic and, no doubt, it is an amazing and world changing material - cheap, light and lasts forever. The problem is that it is cheap, light and lasts forever. We don't live in a binary world boo hiss/yeay.
To me this thread (and many others) exposes two opposing perceptions - one is that people asking for regulation and trying to make an env effort are trying to be point scoring. They are accused of wanting to be smug, didactic, controlling, interfering, better than, condescending, superior or telling other people what to do. The other side are motivated by despair, anxiety, panic, civics and figures on rapid decline in plastics pollution, water quality, endangered species', biodiversity loss.
I agree that Brexiteers, Covid deniers, anti-vaxxers, anti-Ulez and people against anti-env legislation are all motivated by the loathing of the sense of being told what to do. It's why the conservative party, the Republicans, Ukip, free marketeers and neo-liberal online pundits are so successful. They defend the idea of individual "sovereignty" and "freedom" and the unfettered power to do or say whatever you want. They feel bossed, instructed, nagged - as if by a pecking mother or an angry headmaster. It's loony, unnecessary and OTT.
It's a real problem, as there are real crossed wires about motivation for our comments.
We live in one of the denatured countries in the world; the UK has lost half its flowering plants since 1970; 15% of British species are threatened by extinction; microplastics appear in human blood, clouds and ice caps; 15% of the world's forest have been lost since 2000 and rates of loss are accelerating. Raw sewage was dumped into rivers and coastal areas across England more than 300,000 times last year. 75% of UK rivers currently pose a risk to human health. Greenhouse gas concentrations are at their highest levels in 2 million years.
This is the motivation for wanting much stronger regulation, collective responsibilty, rapid, decisive action. We are in an emergency. The sense is nothing to do with point scoring, oneupmanship or smugness - this is about despair, not least at the great wave of human suffering on the way. To me, it's like the face mask row over and over again - small changes can make big differences for everyone's well being but it makes some people irate that they are asked to change their actions and they detest it.
Your arguments make perfect sense to me, @Fire, and I share your views, but they leave most people cold, particularly if you can't put food on the table. We are heading IMO for [ already in ] a massive global recession, which will dwarf other recent recessions, so there is no way money is going to be spent on these issues. I fear that by the time we are, it will be too late.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
In MD’s post about the mushroom compost his first comment was that it now comes in bags, whereas previously it was delivered loose. The way the post read was that that was the main driver for change.
@Butterfly66 Thanks for clarification which makes a difference, imo.
@Fire, I'm not sure it is two distinct camps. I fall in both of your sections. I want protections (for workers at Amazon, for water courses, for life other than humans to thrive, etc), but I feel govs don't expect enough of themselves, don't do things they know they should for fear of losing elections, don't have their focus on what is right for the majority for fear of upsetting the very wealthy.
Brexit, Covid, vaccination progs, etc - these are all issues with light and shade. You can be pro vaccinations, but anti-compulsion (ie pro choice). You can be pro improving air quality but anti dumping the cost of that on those least able to pay. A ULEZ charge could have been levied on people using 4x4s for urban school runs or giant limos delivering one entitled person from A to B. There are always choices made in these regulations. You can be pro the outcome but anti the method.
Personally I was neither for nor against Brexit. If there had been a "don't mind" choice in the ballot paper, I would have ticked that. I could see advantages/issues either way. The problem was not people having a say. It was the total lack of gov preparation for either outcome before the vote, the behaviour of politicians afterwards, and the glee of the media stoking divisions for a cheap long-running story.
Anyway, luckily gardening is a great antidote for all this angst, with or without peat ... which is where we started many posts ago! 😁
In MD’s post about the mushroom compost his first comment was that it now comes in bags, whereas previously it was delivered loose. The way the post read was that that was the main driver for change.
@Butterfly66 Thanks for clarification which makes a difference, imo.
Monty also said they haven't used mushroom compost for 5 years so why he's waited this long to raise the subject?
Some years go I used to buy mushroom compost from a farm, they have since gone out of businesses!
They made the growing medium from very coarse straw, fresh horse droppings brought steaming from the stables and lime, as far as I am aware nothing else!
I would rather people in the public eye were a bit over the top when it comes to environment as it can give the ordinary public a kick up the arse to do a tiny bit more.
I strongly disagree with that approach. Overstating the case for anything is far more likely to put people off than to encourage them.
I agree it's in the amount they vocally protest. I was meaning more the Monty approach where he didn't always need to say peat free potting compost, because he had made it clear many times over in the same episode. I call this an ott approach, the same as using every opportunity in the program to mention potentially harmful process. It's more a gentle nudge that you only really notice if you are listening, it's not a in your face shout about it voice most of us need.
I always treat gardening advice from professionals with a pinch of salt and a touch of common sense like chief cooking programs When chiefs tell you to chop up 6 garlic cloves and 6 chilli peppers including the seeds and add a table spoon of chilli powder you adapt to what suits you. If you are new to both you learn through your mistakes. At least with gardening you do not finish up with an upset stomach.
Posts
We are heading IMO for [ already in ] a massive global recession, which will dwarf other recent recessions, so there is no way money is going to be spent on these issues.
I fear that by the time we are, it will be too late.
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
I ♥ my garden.
Monty also said they haven't used mushroom compost for 5 years so why he's waited this long to raise the subject?
I agree it's in the amount they vocally protest. I was meaning more the Monty approach where he didn't always need to say peat free potting compost, because he had made it clear many times over in the same episode. I call this an ott approach, the same as using every opportunity in the program to mention potentially harmful process. It's more a gentle nudge that you only really notice if you are listening, it's not a in your face shout about it voice most of us need.