I think possibly, the rationale behind why they sell them labelled that way is that some people wouldn’t understand the concept of alternative growth/training/pruning possibilities and would find it easier to just be told - “here’s a plant, it’s a climber, this is what you need to do”
or “here’s a shrub, this is what you do with shrubs.”
To avoid the confusion of having multiple sets of instructions.
I do agree that it can be misleading though, as often, the seller info suggests that as a shrub they can be kept relatively small - which they can be - but you’d miss out on a lot of flowers if you chopped off all the long octopus canes that they inevitably throw out. They end up wanting to be larger than stated.
Which then leads to the inevitable - “I bought a shrub but it’s acting like a climber, did they send me the wrong one?”
Nope they’re the same plant - and knowing that maybe the customer would have possibly selected an alternative for their needs that actually was a more manageable small/medium shrub.
Hi Fire, by the way, 🖐🏻 - nice to see you on the forum again!
Oh well that scotches that theory then Pete, it’s clearly far more boisterous than originally thought 😆
Most customers have contained gardens rather than acreage, so the temptation for breeders to underestimate or stick with outdated info must be very strong. It’s not an exact science though. A rose can just take time to show what it’s capable of and that will vary hugely depending on climate/conditions. Same with any plant - my Salvia Amistad can easily get to 3x3m!
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
It's worth bearing in mind that I've never pruned my Moonlight so it's been growing for about 30+ years. Occasionally a big lump of it gets blown out of the tree and lands on the lawn, so I cut that off but otherwise it's left alone. I can see there's a mass of dead stems buried deep in the growth, but I can't get to that either.
It reminds me of the 'dwarf' conifers that were all the rage back in the 80's. I had several that got to about 15ft in 10 years that I had to get removed.
Crocus for example indicate that an ivy they sell will get to an eventual height/width of 10m x 6m Wikipedia indicates an eventual spread of 20-30 metres which is probably more realistic.
Billericay - Essex
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Climber or shrub, it's more a decription of how you choose to grow them. New users in any jargon have difficulties.
As noted upthread, the companies are selling some roses of the same genetics as two different plants with different maximum heights given. That is not a question of newbie confusion.
My comments earlier refer to only one purchased plant, with, I assume, only one set of genes.
I formerly chose to grow it as a shrub; because of changing circunstances, I now choose to grow it as a shrub.
I think the sellers are just giving a plant two places in their catalogues, which they think may be helpful.
location: Surrey Hills, England, ex-woodland acidic sand. "Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
Sometimes the climbing version (like "climbing iceberg") is a sport of the original that someone noticed had a taller/ longer-caned habit than the main plant and propagated from it. Maybe that change in habit happens often.
Sports and reversions do occur.
I have a plant that I call "Officinalis' but I have only ever bought 'Rosamundi'. (I might resell a 'Rosamundi' plant but would be more circumspect about 'Officinalis'.
location: Surrey Hills, England, ex-woodland acidic sand. "Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
After reading all the Moonlight posts I managed to get a potted one at Wych Cross for £5 totally worth a try...in a pot for the winter and hopefully in a different garden and in the ground next year. So top tip about Coolings they sell currently the remaining roses in stock for £5 each even online.
Posts
or “here’s a shrub, this is what you do with shrubs.”
To avoid the confusion of having multiple sets of instructions.
I do agree that it can be misleading though, as often, the seller info suggests that as a shrub they can be kept relatively small - which they can be - but you’d miss out on a lot of flowers if you chopped off all the long octopus canes that they inevitably throw out. They end up wanting to be larger than stated.
Nope they’re the same plant - and knowing that maybe the customer would have possibly selected an alternative for their needs that actually was a more manageable small/medium shrub.
Hi Fire, by the way, 🖐🏻 - nice to see you on the forum again!
Most customers have contained gardens rather than acreage, so the temptation for breeders to underestimate or stick with outdated info must be very strong. It’s not an exact science though. A rose can just take time to show what it’s capable of and that will vary hugely depending on climate/conditions. Same with any plant - my Salvia Amistad can easily get to 3x3m!
Occasionally a big lump of it gets blown out of the tree and lands on the lawn, so I cut that off but otherwise it's left alone.
I can see there's a mass of dead stems buried deep in the growth, but I can't get to that either.
It reminds me of the 'dwarf' conifers that were all the rage back in the 80's. I had several that got to about 15ft in 10 years that I had to get removed.
Crocus for example indicate that an ivy they sell will get to an eventual height/width of 10m x 6m
Wikipedia indicates an eventual spread of 20-30 metres which is probably more realistic.
Billericay - Essex
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
I formerly chose to grow it as a shrub; because of changing circunstances, I now choose to grow it as a shrub.
I think the sellers are just giving a plant two places in their catalogues, which they think may be helpful.
"Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
I have a plant that I call "Officinalis' but I have only ever bought 'Rosamundi'. (I might resell a 'Rosamundi' plant but would be more circumspect about 'Officinalis'.
"Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."