Nollie my screen shots was from the oed, seems to say something completely different to yours. Obviously I am fully aware that DRs don't use the term, anymore, hardly relevant. I didn't think we were discussing the weather or cats sitting on a cushion.TheOED takes pride of place on our table,am married to an old school crossword addict. I enjoy autumn, maybe because I was born then. Seems like folk are thinking of nostalgia.
Here's the relevant definition from the latest edition of the OED, for clarity. This is for the noun, but the adjectival definitions also include the words 'pensive', 'poignant', 'reflective' and 'bittersweet' which are probably the most pertinent here. The examples below are interesting with their references to 'pleasing', 'luxurious', 'charming' and 'delightful' melancholy.
'If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.'
@LG, some very good references there to melancholy, echoing the responses from members for whom it has an emotional meaning. Perhaps some people never feel it, so can't understand it's true meaning.
Posy,no-one I know uses Melancholy as an everyday word, I cannot abide the fact that the English language keeps changing. Sensible highly qualified medics I worked with using the word "pants" instead of rubbish. Oddly enough, for some years I was known as the "walking dictionary", previous post, nursing home,"I talked posh,and used a lot of long words". When I was brought up swearing was forbidden my late Mother, said"people who swear have a poor command of the English language". There isn't a "true meaning"according to posters,it means different things to different people.
Those of us who experience and appreciate melancholy for its varied richness responded to @Simone_in_Wiltshire's post title 'Do you feel this romanticising melancholy of Autumn?' because we recognise the word, and it's relevance at this season. That's why we have enjoyed reading it and appreciating each others descriptions. Most emotions will be described by people using different adjectives, and it's the same with melancholy. It's been a good thread, and I like how it has differentiated between depression and melancholy. Thank you Simone, and all who have contributed, with whatever opinions, as I feel it has helped to highlight this. 🙂
Mention something like " school dinners " to a person of a certain age brought up in the UK. It will evoke emotions, and memories using all five senses but mention it to someone brought up elsewhere, it will just have its factual meaning. It's the same with many words or phrases. Our personal experience affects the meaning for an individual.
But @Nanny Beach, we have been speaking recognizable English since Chaucer. When I began teaching, I found it difficult to accept some of the changes in our language, especially the Americanisation and the hyperbole, but I had to come to acknowledge that words change, just as life changes.
We simply couldn't get on speaking as Chaucer or Shakespeare did. Many of my pupils found it hard enough to cope with modern English, bless them. The grunt has its place.
Words come to mean what the speaker means when a sufficient number of speakers use them that way. Words associated with mental states are just the same. We say mad, depressed, crazy , insane without a thought but we may only mean we made an expensive purchase or became a little silly at a party. It's just the way language goes. I, too, talk 'posh" though I do swear from time to time! but it's impossible to insist on original definitions. No-one would understand a word I said.
... Sensible highly qualified medics I worked with using the word "pants" instead of rubbish. ...
The meaning of the word 'rubbish' has evolved over the years ... it used to mean just waste material that is no longer needed, e.g. a rubbish heap, garbage etc. '.
Now it also means something that is poorly designed and not fit for purpose. Sometimes it's used to describe a situation too ... someone who, despite a medic's best endeavours, hasn't recovered ........'That's rubbish luck'.
It is also used as a verb, 'to rubbish something or someone' meaning to criticise as in "the Reviewer rubbished the actor's performance".
The English language is constantly changing ... always has done, always will ... I studied Chaucer and needed a translation, but he wrote in English. Many folk find Shakespearian English difficult to understand. I find some of the terms used by 'modern youth' totally incomprehensible. It's all English and its adaptablility is what makes this language so useful ... otherwise it wouldn't be used so widely across the globe.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
B3, weird you should say that, my Hubby comes from South London,talks about school dinner. I didn't eat at school but it was "lunch". The reason for being told I talked posh. .was because I sound T and G,I don't say,"somethink", nothink, couldn't of, I don't say"ain't", my poor mother would arise from the ashes!!! Rubbish is still rubbish here, anything that cannot be out in the recycling bin.
I love how one word can have many meanings and meanings change over time as language evolves. I use the word and experience it in it’s wistful, reflective sense, especially at this time of year so totally feel Simone’s concept of ‘romanticising melancholy’.
LG’s more recent definition speaks to me more, but it’s fascinating to read of its older, blacker meanings. My quotes were from the OED 1989 edition, here it is in full:
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Posts
Perhaps some people never feel it, so can't understand it's true meaning.
'Do you feel this romanticising melancholy of Autumn?' because we recognise the word, and it's relevance at this season. That's why we have enjoyed reading it and appreciating each others descriptions.
Most emotions will be described by people using different adjectives, and it's the same with melancholy.
It's been a good thread, and I like how it has differentiated between depression and melancholy.
Thank you Simone, and all who have contributed, with whatever opinions, as I feel it has helped to highlight this.
🙂
We simply couldn't get on speaking as Chaucer or Shakespeare did. Many of my pupils found it hard enough to cope with modern English, bless them. The grunt has its place.
Words come to mean what the speaker means when a sufficient number of speakers use them that way. Words associated with mental states are just the same. We say mad, depressed, crazy , insane without a thought but we may only mean we made an expensive purchase or became a little silly at a party. It's just the way language goes. I, too, talk 'posh" though I do swear from time to time! but it's impossible to insist on original definitions. No-one would understand a word I said.
Now it also means something that is poorly designed and not fit for purpose. Sometimes it's used to describe a situation too ... someone who, despite a medic's best endeavours, hasn't recovered ........'That's rubbish luck'.
It is also used as a verb, 'to rubbish something or someone' meaning to criticise as in "the Reviewer rubbished the actor's performance".
The English language is constantly changing ... always has done, always will ... I studied Chaucer and needed a translation, but he wrote in English. Many folk find Shakespearian English difficult to understand. I find some of the terms used by 'modern youth' totally incomprehensible. It's all English and its adaptablility is what makes this language so useful ... otherwise it wouldn't be used so widely across the globe.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
LG’s more recent definition speaks to me more, but it’s fascinating to read of its older, blacker meanings. My quotes were from the OED 1989 edition, here it is in full: