Quick q- if you plant a standard rose, does the long stem need direct sunlight at all at the base? I'm thinking not because I have seen them inside little box hedges, but would just like to confirm. I have found a place in the garden when it would get full sun from about a metre up, but the ground is in total shade.
I don’t think the bottom in shade would be a problem, my GdF standard’s interstem is mostly in shade and doesn’t seem to have done it any harm. After all, a rose on a north wall gets little sun on it’s canes and the mophead at the top of a standard would shade much of it out anyway even when planted in full sun. I’ve no idea what stock was used on mine tho, or any other for that matter, and whether that has a bearing..
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Hello folks, I'm looking for some rose advice and would be very grateful for any snippets of wisdom!
Firstly, can anyone point me towards a good resource for understanding the different types of roses? I have little to no idea what the difference between a shrub rose and an old rose and a floribunda rose and a tea rose etc is...
Secondly, I have two roses in my garden. The first is Buff Beauty, which I am growing as a shrub. The second rose is Souvenir du Docteur Jamain which I am growing as a climber. They are both only babies - I put them in last year. Should I prune them later this winter/early in spring, or should I leave them?
@BlueBirder Hello.. here are a couple of options for you to peruse at your leisure..
This link is to the Historic Roses Group, where you can read a brief history of each class of roses, just click on each type.. I think it's quite good as a quick reference without getting too involved.. https://historicroses.org/a-brief-history-of-historic-roses/
If you'd prefer video.. the now retired ex-David Austin rosarian Michael Marriott, did a Zoom presentation just the other day... he's now Chairman of the Historic Roses Group in the link above..
He talks rather slowly and takes his time, so it's an hour long... a quicker talker could have condensed it to less than half that time, but it's quite interesting if taken in stages.. he goes through all the groups.. Mr Marriott and I would be in general agreement on what constitutes an Old Rose as opposed to Moderns.. he includes roses up to the 1930's.. I go to 1945 as a cut off point.. this opposes the American Rose Society which takes a strict line at 1867.. I think us British tend towards a looser designation these days..
Also making an appearance once or twice on that video is breeder Chris Warner, famous for some Hulthemias some of us grow, roses like Lilac Bouquet and Open Arms too as well as Warm Welcome..
I've just read @pitter-patter 's post, that's so sad, I do hope you get something resolved, you have such a beautiful garden, so well tended... The courier wheelie bin incident was just ridiculous beyond words.. how could they do such a thing? .. take care..
I'm having a problem with APC courier... it seems something I'm expecting has got misplaced... oh well, it'll come out in the wash..
@BlueBirder, goodness, where to start! There are lots of explanations and references out there and I’m sure there will be lots of recommendations, but I’ll try and summarise..
Generally, an ‘old garden rose’ is considered a class of rose that existed/was developed up to around the late 1700’s. These include roses such as Damask, China, Bourbon, Hybrid Perpetual, Tea, Alba, Portland, Gallica, Noisette and old species roses and ramblers etc.
Old roses are, or were, mostly summer blooming only, but others were developed to repeat flower. Most of them are large shrubs, some are climbers or can be trained as such.
1867 is considered the cut-off date by many for old roses, as that was when the first widely recognised ‘modern’ rose was introduced - this rose and others were the early examples of crosses that produced the Hybrid Teas, Floribundas and modern shrub and climbing roses. But cut-off dates are arbitrary and other classes emerged later than 1867 such as Hybrid Musks, which are very much old rose in character so many class those as old garden roses too.
The key is to know what class your specific roses fall into, and learn about its growth habits (or how you want to grow it) and the relevant pruning requirements..
Buff Beauty is a Hybrid Musk and only light pruning is needed for the first few years to allow it to develop into it’s naturally large, arching shrub shape. So basically just cutting out dead bits and the lightest of shaping.
Souvenir du Docteur Jamain is a Hybrid Perpetual, one that appreciates some shade as the blooms can burn in sun. Climbers, or roses being grown as climbers, need more training rather than pruning. You want to train the long canes, when you get them, along wires to get the most blooms as this way they produce lots of flowering shoots along those canes.
This is a guide to old roses and their pruning I find useful, but there are many others..
I think some members live in Hertfordshire... if you are near Letty Green, Hertford, you might be interested in a day course in pruning roses.. 4 hours £60 includes lunch.. Expert tuition. 2 dates in Feb coming up..
Rochfords International Rose Trial ground.. the only one in the UK.
Posts
That Shropshire Lad rose must be easily one of their prettiest, @newbie77
Firstly, can anyone point me towards a good resource for understanding the different types of roses? I have little to no idea what the difference between a shrub rose and an old rose and a floribunda rose and a tea rose etc is...
Secondly, I have two roses in my garden. The first is Buff Beauty, which I am growing as a shrub. The second rose is Souvenir du Docteur Jamain which I am growing as a climber. They are both only babies - I put them in last year. Should I prune them later this winter/early in spring, or should I leave them?
Thanks in advance
Hello.. here are a couple of options for you to peruse at your leisure..
This link is to the Historic Roses Group, where you can read a brief history of each class of roses, just click on each type.. I think it's quite good as a quick reference without getting too involved..
https://historicroses.org/a-brief-history-of-historic-roses/
If you'd prefer video.. the now retired ex-David Austin rosarian Michael Marriott, did a Zoom presentation just the other day... he's now Chairman of the Historic Roses Group in the link above..
He talks rather slowly and takes his time, so it's an hour long... a quicker talker could have condensed it to less than half that time, but it's quite interesting if taken in stages.. he goes through all the groups..
Mr Marriott and I would be in general agreement on what constitutes an Old Rose as opposed to Moderns.. he includes roses up to the 1930's.. I go to 1945 as a cut off point.. this opposes the American Rose Society which takes a strict line at 1867.. I think us British tend towards a looser designation these days..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4SMYd7YW7A
Also making an appearance once or twice on that video is breeder Chris Warner, famous for some Hulthemias some of us grow, roses like Lilac Bouquet and Open Arms too as well as Warm Welcome..
The courier wheelie bin incident was just ridiculous beyond words.. how could they do such a thing?
.. take care..
I'm having a problem with APC courier... it seems something I'm expecting has got misplaced... oh well, it'll come out in the wash..
Generally, an ‘old garden rose’ is considered a class of rose that existed/was developed up to around the late 1700’s. These include roses such as Damask, China, Bourbon, Hybrid Perpetual, Tea, Alba, Portland, Gallica, Noisette and old species roses and ramblers etc.
Old roses are, or were, mostly summer blooming only, but others were developed to repeat flower. Most of them are large shrubs, some are climbers or can be trained as such.
1867 is considered the cut-off date by many for old roses, as that was when the first widely recognised ‘modern’ rose was introduced - this rose and others were the early examples of crosses that produced the Hybrid Teas, Floribundas and modern shrub and climbing roses. But cut-off dates are arbitrary and other classes emerged later than 1867 such as Hybrid Musks, which are very much old rose in character so many class those as old garden roses too.
The key is to know what class your specific roses fall into, and learn about its growth habits (or how you want to grow it) and the relevant pruning requirements..
Buff Beauty is a Hybrid Musk and only light pruning is needed for the first few years to allow it to develop into it’s naturally large, arching shrub shape. So basically just cutting out dead bits and the lightest of shaping.
Souvenir du Docteur Jamain is a Hybrid Perpetual, one that appreciates some shade as the blooms can burn in sun. Climbers, or roses being grown as climbers, need more training rather than pruning. You want to train the long canes, when you get them, along wires to get the most blooms as this way they produce lots of flowering shoots along those canes.
This is a guide to old roses and their pruning I find useful, but there are many others..
https://berkeleyhort.com/how-to/pruning-old-roses/
Expert tuition. 2 dates in Feb coming up..
Rochfords International Rose Trial ground.. the only one in the UK.
email roses@rochfords dot net for info and book..