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What doesn't kill them makes them stronger? Any evidence?

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  • punkdocpunkdoc Posts: 15,039
    The Secret Life of Trees is a wonderful book.
    How can you lie there and think of England
    When you don't even know who's in the team

    S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    There are two books - The Hidden Life of Trees and the Secret Life of Trees - somewhat confusing. Both may be excellent.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited August 2022
    They  too talk about English trees being lazy, and say in Cyprus trees root much deeper because they have to.

    I imagine they are entirely different types of trees. In BC, Canada, the foresters used to talk about certain conifers having very wide, shallow root systems. The tree's root system would interlace with other trees and that is how they held themselves up (not by virtue of depth).

    "Most conifers have rather shallow, if wide-spreading, root systems, making the trunks highly susceptible to wind and surface disturbance."

    Certain tree species in the UK, like our beech and oak, wouldn't survive regular 40oC+ summers as are not built for it. It's nothing to do with laziness.



  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    'Entangled Life' Merlin Shedrake talks of trees supporting each other. When one struggles others offer help. An amazing read.
    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    @Fire A really good two minute video if all of this is new to you. Having read about it I always think about it when standing or walking near trees. A new experience.
    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    Fire said:
    BenCotto said:
    Water superficially = roots near the surface
    Drench sporadically = roots delve downwards.

    That is constantly repeated but is there evidence it is true? Or is it more that it seems like it ought to be true?

    It's a good question @BenCotto - is it how we think plants ought to behave?

    It’s pretty easy to prove this to yourself, a multitude of test subjects are not required, one fig tree will do. A well-mulched fig tree with no sign of surface roots, that is watered very deeply twice during the summer was recently used to provide dappled shade for a couple of potted plants. Said potted plants were watered. I moved one pot this morning and here is the result. The fig roots were actually trying to grow up through the pot’s drainage holes into the moist potting soil:


    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • Allotment BoyAllotment Boy Posts: 6,774
    @Fire they are talking about fruit trees and Olives, not native English woodland, as I  say it's only an expression they use, meaning our trees don't normally have to go too deep to find water.   When I  do the RHS course they explained that roots need air too, and mostly stay in the upper humus containing layers. Most plants rely on water wicking up by capillary action from the subsoil as they extract water from the topsoil.
    In France once we visited a Champagne châteaux,  they had a display with a huge block of chalk ( must have been  4 or 5 M tall). This had the root of a grapevine that had grown right through it. Not many plants will do that though.
    AB Still learning

  • PlantmindedPlantminded Posts: 3,580
    punkdoc said:
    I don't think it is controversial, @Plantminded. There is very good scientific evidence that trees communicate with each other.
    Neither do l @punkdoc, that is how the author of the book was introduced in the article, hence the use of quotation marks.  The subject is indeed fascinating.  Thank you for that link @fire, that is the book that l have and have made good progress reading it today!

    Wirral. Sandy, free draining soil.


  • TopbirdTopbird Posts: 8,355
    LOL @Nollie 😄

    That picture reminds me so much of when I had 3 large (2' high 1m x 2m) raised beds built for growing veg in the front garden. One of them was right next to (and the others within 4m of) a mature (15 year old) walnut tree.

    First season - good yield from all 3 beds. By season 3, I got virtually nothing from the bed next to the walnut and significantly reduced yield from the other two. The walnut tree meanwhile had put on nearly 2m of growth.

    Suffice to say that the bed nearest the tree had become one huge, dense root ball and the tree roots were also well established in the other 2 beds. 

    Those tree roots were very definitely following the easiest path to water and nutrition.
    Heaven is ... sitting in the garden with a G&T and a cat while watching the sun go down
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