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New Hedge - traditional mix or 2 single rows

Mountain_GoatMountain_Goat Posts: 6
in Problem solving
Hey all, I did have a quick search and didn't see anything that hit the nail on the head so thought I'd just ask.

Just moved in to our first home and want to put a hedge around our front garden as everywhere else just seems to be fences. I do work in the landscape industry but am looking (I think) to do something a little bit different and just want to know if you think it will work or if it's not worth the hassle.

Essentially we have the space for a double staggered hedge and we want it to be a native mix to be as useful as possible from a wildlife perspective. However, we are in an urban environment (albeit in the countryside, but urban nonetheless) so ideally we don't want it to look too messy from the footpath outside. Even if we set it back a bit, we will obviously have to go out there and trim it back to make sure its not sprawling into the footpath, but that then partially negates the positive part of having a decent mixed hedge where you can leave it long enough to have that benefit long into winter/spring etc rather than having to cut it back.

So, the question is . . . should I just stick to a normal traditional double staggered mix the whole way along, clip it tight on the outside and then rotate the cutting on the inside as best for the wildlife . . . OR my secret plan which is to basically run a single row of beech to the perimeter which can be maintained relatively neatly and won't look too messy (also when it holds onto its leaves well into winter I assume that will act as a bit of screening without it needing to be evergreen) . . . then inside it run a single mixed row of Holly, Hawthorne and Vibernum.L with a few Clematis.V and Lonicera.P mixed in and then just maintain that a bit more ecologically minded.

Is my "hedge inside of a hedge" idea just a non-starter? There shouldn't be any shade issues as they will grow up together (besides the Holly obviously which may be a while in catching up).
I've looked everywhere and it seems to just not be the done thing, but I don't see that it is much different than having ornamental shrubs behind a hedge? With the only difference being that it actually is the hedge?

We know we definitely do not just want a single species hedge, we definitely want that extra ecological benefit to it, but equally need to weigh up the need to be neat on one side without having to cut off all the good ecologically beneficial bits all the time. Or does doing the whole thing as a mix still outweigh it in benefits even if its maintained more strictly?

Ideas and thoughts appreciated!
Many thanks.
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  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    edited March 2022
    I can't see why that shouldn't work.  You'll need to keep an eye on it to make sure neither hedge is allowed to take over the space - so at the start I guess you might need to trim your native mixed hedge more tightly than you want to end up doing, so that the beech isn't overwhelmed.  It sounds an interesting compromise though.  :) 

    Edited to say:  sorry, forgot to say welcome to the forum @tintinazure
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • Mountain_GoatMountain_Goat Posts: 6
    Liriodendron said:
    I can't see why that shouldn't work.  You'll need to keep an eye on it to make sure neither hedge is allowed to take over the space - so at the start I guess you might need to trim your native mixed hedge more tightly than you want to end up doing, so that the beech isn't overwhelmed.  It sounds an interesting compromise though.  :) 

    Edited to say:  sorry, forgot to say welcome to the forum @tintinazure
    Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear!

    And thanks for the welcome!
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    It's not too different from having a shrub border to the inside of a hedge  :)
    The only problems would be getting them all established equally - ie some may not thrive as well as others, depending on the soil/climate etc, and then keeping it all neat enough to look good. If you have enough room, you can keep a good space between them to make maintenance easier, and to give them all more room to get going.
    I have a short run that is similar, in that there's blackthorn hedge, and inside is holly, mahonia and laurel with a few other bits and pieces. It provides wind protection, and flowers/berries etc. The drawback is that the blackthorn suckers, and is going to have to come out, but you won't have that problem with your choices. 
    As @Liriodendron says, it'll be a case of keeping an eye on it all. Good luck with it  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096


    Essentially we have the space for a double staggered hedge and we want it to be a native mix to be as useful as possible from a wildlife perspective...we will obviously have to go out there and trim it back to make sure its not sprawling into the footpath, but that then partially negates the positive part of having a decent mixed hedge where you can leave it long enough to have that benefit long into winter/spring etc rather than having to cut it back.


    I think this is a really important point. Quite a few people have pyracantha edges near me, but it is kept square and closely clipped. So it never really flowers and has few berries. Which seems a real shame. Privet too. I let my pyracantha and privet run pretty free, as they are not facing the street.

    I have an inherited holly hedge that faces on to the street. I keep it clipped at the front, but it is a messy hedge. It also doesn't have berries. Make sure you get a female plant if you want holly berries. So again, not really much good for wildlife. Nothing nests in it.

    I have beech hedges which are probably the easiest to manage but don't do much for wildlife. They are not thick enough to provide nesting, no beechnuts. Of all the wildlife hedging, ivy is one of the best, esp if left to flower in the autumn. Not that easy to manage, but an invalulable resource of nectar and berries.

    I would get clear on the exact uses you want the hedging for. If you want strong screening, that will dictate what and how you plant to some extent. It's worth checking that carefully. I planted crab apples hedging, and that was a mistake as in my situation it provides no screening for six months of the year, when there are no leaves. Beech is useful for screening. If you have a last cut at the end of August or so, the leaves will stay on the hedge over winter and help with screening. 

    You could have beech on the street side and wildy wildlife hedging on the inside that you don't clip often. I would plant thickly as some young trees might not survive and esp if you want a good density for screening.

  • Mountain_GoatMountain_Goat Posts: 6
    Fire said:
    You could have beech on the street side and wildy wildlife hedging on the inside that you don't clip often. I would plant thickly as some young trees might not survive and esp if you want a good density for screening.

    Cheers Fire, that last comment is literally my exact plan really, seems like the beech should be a bit more manageable and give a little bit of screening while I can let the interior side of the hedge be a bit more wild and do its thing. I would probably be planting it at 400mm centres with 300mm offset and put them in at 45 degree angles to start with, so for all intents and purposes it would be a double staggered hedge but I'll just be a bit more specific with what species is where. Obviously don't mind bits poking through as I can just manage that as required.

    I did originally have Ivy on my list but just concerned it will strangle the hedge, specially whilst it is young, so thought about using 1 or 2 Clematis vitalba on the shadier side and Lonicera periclymenum on the other length of hedge. Slightly concerned the clematis will be just as bad as the ivy but seems like it will be a bit more obviously manageable long term?

    A work colleague did suggest that maybe I just do the whole thing as a mix and just manage the external side like the beech as ultimately it probably wont make much difference, but my thoughts were just that the beech will probably handle the tighter clipping a bit better and not look too out of place?

    and thanks @Fairygirl . . . we probably do have room to put between them but its not going to be the worlds longest hedge so probably easy enough to manage it as one entity I reckon, just have to keep on top of it in the early years so they grow evenly.


  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited March 2022
    Mountain_Goat said:


    Slightly concerned the clematis will be just as bad as the ivy but seems like it will be a bit more obviously manageable long term.

    I looked into Travellers Joy recently and the consensus on this forum was that it spirals out of hand pretty quickly and is a thug. I have, this winter, gone for experimenting with a rambling rose, set to scramble through the beech, crap apple, holly and ivy hedging. It has the virtue of not requiring pruning, unlike a clem group two or three. It's not a native rose, but has good and open flowers for the bees. I will terribly excited if the plan works. Honeysuckle can get woody and erratic. I don't find it easy to manage.

    My thoughts were just that the beech will probably handle the tighter clipping a bit better and not look too out of place.
    I agree. That is certainly my experience.

    Something I learnt fairly recently is that hedges work best when you have a set of individual trees equally spaced, making up the whole. As I understand it, it's not a good idea to grow a tree outsideways to make up the space. In my garden, it looks like previous owners decades ago had a tall holly tree on the street side and someone later cut it down to hedge size and tried to grow out it sideways. They also did this with the pyracantha. A word to the wise. It really doesn't work in design terms. They never grow even and are always wonky and lumpy, because leaders want to grow straight up from the main trunk are densest at the heart. You could espalier or pleach the trees, but that's another ballgame.

  • Mountain_GoatMountain_Goat Posts: 6
    Fire said:
    I looked into Travellers Joy recently and the consensus on this forum was that it spirals out of hand pretty quickly and is a thug. I have, this winter, gone for experimenting with a rambling rose, set to scramble through the beech, crap apple, holly and ivy hedging. It has the virtue of not requiring pruning, unlike a clem group two or three. It's not a native rose, but has good and open flowers for the bees. I will terribly excited if the plan works. Honeysuckle can get woody and erratic. I don't find it easy to manage.
    That's interesting I knew it was quite vigorous but didn't realise it was that bad.

    Isn't it in group 3 so ideally can and should basically be cut back completely each year to grow again? Provided you can reach the stem easily within the hedge planting etc. Obviously if it isn't cut back it could definitely become a problem but presumably if it is hit hard every year it should be fine?

    Or does it just grow so vigorously that it smothers plants regardless of cutting it right back?
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    You might get away with travellers joy by cutting it to 20-30cm early each year, but the old stems will be wrapped round everything in your hedge.  That could be a positive (more dense cover for birds, nesting sites etc) or a negative (smothers less vigorous neighbours).  So you might have to chop it back during the year as well, if it starts getting out of hand.  It's excellent for wildlife though, the flowers attracting bees & hoverflies, and the seeds for birds.  Plus it's a food host plant for some moth species.
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • Mountain_GoatMountain_Goat Posts: 6
    @Liriodendron that is exactly what I was planning to do really, leave the old stems in there and let the new stuff grow back up. I assume if I stick it where the Hawthorne is that should be able to handle it without being overwhelmed? and then just keep an eye on it and see how it goes?
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    It'll grow a lot faster than the hawthorn so you'll still need to be stern with it, I reckon...
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
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