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A very long Clematis Virginiana (devil's darning needles) - how to mulch and support it once pruned

Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
in Problem solving
I'm very new to this, and have a  Group 2 clematis, Virginiana (devil's darning needles), which got so very long and wrapped itself around bushes horizontally, creating long vines without flowering - I'd say about 30 feet.

I am planning going to prune it back to the first buds, which would be around 30-50cm from the ground (removing all the long vines). I hope this is right.

I think it must need fertiliser, so I will put in the slow grow stuff I am planning to use for my Group 3 clematis.

Can I mulch my Group 2 clematis? I was going to give it a mulch all around it and between it, touching the stems, and about 2 inches high.

And I was wondering what kind of support would be best for this vine-like clematis. The actual stems are very thick and bendy.
Would a metal obelisk be best? I could move one over that is currently with a 3rd clematis I have that doesn't seem to grow very tall, and leave that 3rd clematis tied to simple bamboo sticks.
I'm guessing an expanding wooden trellis nailed to the fence would not work well.
The only other way would be to try and make something, but I don't have any bendy long twigs for it.

It's hard to get a good photo, but here you can just about see there is a mess of old woody stems at the base (2 stems actually go into the soil), and then the vines/stems are a deep purple/red colour. You can see it has not been pruned for a long time if ever.

Any advice is very much appreciated.






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Posts

  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    Same feeding, mulching and support options as your group 3 but the pruning is different.

    All you do later in spring is cut off dead stems above the highest bud.  It should then grow on and flower in May/June.  You'll need to tie in new growth to its supports.   Once the flowers are finished you can dead head as well as remove any stems heading too far or in the wrong direction.  Give it a good feed and it should produce a second flush of flowers later in summer.

    Or you could just treat it as a group 3 which is what I do with my group 2s.  It means you get a single flush of flowers and a bit later but for longer.

    Supports can be trellis panels, rusty iron mesh that builders use for reinforcing concrete (one of my favourites as it's indestructible and not expensive) or wires stretched and tensioned across a wall or fence posts using vine eyes and tensioners.
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • MarlorenaMarlorena Posts: 8,705
    Are you quite sure you have Clematis virginiana?  because if you do then it's not a gr. 2 and I would hardly call it a gr. 3 either... more like a rampant weed... [similar to vitalba, Old Man's Beard, ] I should think the last thing you'd want to do is feed it..

    If it was in my garden it would be gone, and something better put in its place..

    best of luck with it though.. if that's what you do have there.. your description of 30 feet suggests so..
    East Anglia, England
  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Thanks ever so much Obelixx!

    I see, I think then I'll try and prune it like Group 2. The vines all branch off and there are some with no buds at all so I guess I would cut those off. There is one branch with some green buds up to about a 120cm high, and a few other branches with buds that end lower down.

    How do I know the right time to prune it? The last frost here is supposed to be 21st - 30th April.

    I'm guessing should wait until I prune it, to do the fertilise and mulch.

    Rushy iron mesh is new to me! Does it look a bit like chicken wire with large gaps?  I don't know where I could get that from though.

    Wires sound interesting too but maybe too advanced for me at my current state.

    So a trellis panel would be OK, I didn't realise.  I do have one, that I bought for about £5, which I could nail to the fence if that would work.  I am thinking I would have to find a way to make a 1-2 inch gap between the trellis and the fence though, to give the vines room to circle around it and wrap themselves.

    This is a picture I just took of how it knots itself very tightly onto anything it can - here it is on a rosemary branch.


  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    If you're treating it as a group 3, prune now.  If a group 2, prune, as indicated, after the first flush of flowers.
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Oh see, that makes sense, just the one pruning after the 1st flush. Thank you!

    I'm going to think about which way I'll do it.
  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Marlorena said:
    Are you quite sure you have Clematis virginiana?  because if you do then it's not a gr. 2 and I would hardly call it a gr. 3 either... more like a rampant weed... [similar to vitalba, Old Man's Beard, ] I should think the last thing you'd want to do is feed it..

    If it was in my garden it would be gone, and something better put in its place..

    best of luck with it though.. if that's what you do have there.. your description of 30 feet suggests so..

    Ooo. No, I am not sure at all actually.  It was just there, and I thought  it was bought from a garden centre originally but I'm not sure of that.  It was a suggestion to me from someone online that it could be a Clematis virginiana.

    Once I saw some white flowers, just one or two, but none last year.  But I'm pretty sure they didn't have the little white tendril things on them which I see on an image search on the web for both vitalba, Old Man's Beard, and also virginiana.

    Maybe it's just not worth it. It looks like vitalba has flowers too, but you are saying it's more like a weed. I might get rid of it.

    Here are some pictures of the leaves and the whole vine attached to a Mahonia. Do you think it's an old man's beard?



  • MarlorenaMarlorena Posts: 8,705
    Who told you that was C. Virginiana?  was it an American? because that plant is a native of the U.S. and is more common over there..   the leaves look quite different.

    I think what you have is a Clematis montana, which is a group 1.   You should not prune this clematis now, as it will flower in late April/May time.   Prune after it has finished flowering.  You can prune it hard then but any further growth this year you should leave as it flowers on old wood of the previous year.  I hope you understand this.

    Don't bother with trellis and there's really no need to feed these types of clematis.
    East Anglia, England
  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Although the leaves and vine are maybe a bit more like Clematis virginiana?

    Is the virginiana not that desirable either though? You mentioned it's hardly a group 3 ...

    I'm very new to this so very grateful for the advice!


  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Marlorena said:
    Who told you that was C. Virginiana?  was it an American? because that plant is a native of the U.S. and is more common over there..   the leaves look quite different.

    I think what you have is a Clematis montana, which is a group 1.   You should not prune this clematis now, as it will flower in late April/May time.   Prune after it has finished flowering.  You can prune it hard then but any further growth this year you should leave as it flowers on old wood of the previous year.  I hope you understand this.

    Don't bother with trellis and there's really no need to feed these types of clematis.

    Bingo! You hit the nail on the head, yes it was an American.

    And yes, the flowers do look like Clematis montana.

    Thank you!!

  • Pink678Pink678 Posts: 498
    Great, I will do what you said. I do get your explanation, thank you.  For example say the old wood now it 10", then if after flowering the old wood has grown to 14", then I shouldn't cut below 14".

    Can I cut off the excessively long vines now, or will they flower too? They have little nubs on them but it doesn't look green on the nubs. I'll post a picture tomorrow when it's daylight.

    Do you think Clematis montana are worth keeping in general?

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