K67,my old man goes out weekly in our village with a litter picker and bag, said neighbour sneered"doing your civic duty then". I do need to learn to say no sometimes though,got fingers burnt by elderly friend put a recent post on here, what should I do, lovely advice from dove
BTW since they stopped the fuel tax elevator the link between cost of motorised vehicle use and damage to the environment has been lessened. I saw research that showed motorists are not paying for anywhere close to the real cost of using their vehicle when environmental costs get factored in. Also not really paying enough for the road maintenance neither. I'm happy to pay for the damage my bike causes the road if motorists are willing to probably double the cost to drive and pay for their fair share.
Oh and it's still illegal to have custom number plates with illegal number and letter groupings and sizes which can have the effect of my being easily readable. Or being kept dirty or disguised to speed cameras or other tricks car drivers use to avoid being caught by the non existent traffic cops.
I'm constantly curious as to why the climate emergency doesn't seem to apply to car manufacturers. You'd be amazed how many people turn up to nature reserves in brand new Range Rovers or similar massive cars with a disposable cup of coffee to enjoy while they walk around pretending all is right with the world because nature is being looked after on one tiny scrap of land.
Plenty of people around here drive about with no front numberplate and nothing seems to happen about it.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
@NorthernJoe What I get incandescent about is when large amounts of money IS spend on new cycleways and the lycra louts still insist on using the roads until they reach traffic lights and then cycle across the pedestrian crossings. Either that or they simply ignore the lights completely.
Cyclists probably use the roads because the cycle ways are designed to fit around the motorists needs not the cyclists needs and as such are more dangerous to use than the roads.
For example, cycle paths alongside roads start and stop between side roads because drivers have priority from some roads and the main road. Whereas riding on the road you have the same priority over vehicles in the side roads as other main road users. In enlightened countries the cycle path user has priority over both side road users and main road users turning off. What use is a dangerous cycle path anyway?
When most cyclists are considered as doing something wrong at a junction, especially if most are doing the same thing, then look at it from the cyclist's point of view. What could be causing that behaviour. Everyone has the came simple driver that is to be safe and get home or to work. Regular commuting by bike and you soon learn how to be safe. It is highly likely that being safe at certain junctions put cyclists into the frame with moaning motorists. At the end of the day roads are designed for motorists without consideration for pedestrians and cyclists. It is no wonder they do things motorists don't like such as weaving between stationary cars in a traffic jam or waiting cars at lights. The last one is probably intended by road planners considering the way they've put advanced stop lines in for just that, cyclists to get a head start.
Overall, a lot of the criticisms pointed at cyclists come down to the simple fact that in this country motorists are the Gods of the road and everyone must be sacrificed at their wheels. There are very few places designed around other user types and when they are it's usually not even to the relevant design document. I'm sure you are aware that every road and cycle paths feature has a design guidance in the form of these design documents. With road building they're pretty much closely followed for every new road or upgraded old road. With cycle paths local councils ignore them and as a result design in danger for cyclists. If they treated motorists the same there would be an outcry that gets listened to and someone responsible for it would probably lose their job. There's a very good campaigning website based in the Northwest of England that has a rogue's gallery of poorly conceived cycle paths. From the classic 2 yard long cycle path or the one that gives nothing to the cyclist's route but dumps them at a very busy junction where they enter it at a dodgy angle to set them up against other road users.
All in all about 80% or more of bad cyclists behaviour is probably down to be poor road design. If you doubt that then look at how there is little conflict between cyclists and motorists in Holland. It's eye opening to see what can be achieved.
On the other hand take a look at some of the videos of the badly designed bridges and feed in junctions in Denmark that are available online. You'll see how even in such a high cycling uptake and culture such as the Danish have there's still what is considered bad cyclist behaviour over here simply because of the bad design. It really is that simple, good design breeds less conflict between users but the opposite is also very true.
BTW what works in Holland could work in the UK. However it would take a huge and rapid change in culture. AIUI back in the 60s car use and roads were developing in Holland just as it was developing in the UK. More cars and roads. Also more road deaths, deaths of pedestrians and cyclists. However Dutch society realised it was not working and there was a national conversation about what the wanted. The result was authorities designed routes and suburbs not to suit motorists but other road users. Cyclists got priority with road and indeed town planning. A result was safer routes for cyclists and less conflict if any. It took agreement of all, a complete culture change. Not perfect but closer to it than even the best UK has I reckon.
Monologue over. I just had too much to say because a few more comments annoyed me. Is that not what a curmudgeon does, complain about others and their comments?
I nearly forgot, there's a campaign in the UK centred around £10 per mile for new cycling infrastructure. Can't remember the details but basically the UK isn't even spending close to that very modest figure which would be capable of big improvements in cyclists safety. However motorists are getting a whole lot more than that spent on them. It's not cyclists getting a large amount of money spent on them and when there are small scale projects they're almost all not to design document and in many cases simply dangerous. It's truly pathetic how this country cannot design and build cycling infrastructure. There's very few places that succeed in part.
BTW my nearest city Lancaster was one of the first 5 cycling demonstration towns that got a lot of seed money to promote cycle use. They used it to paint non enforceable cycle lanes to the inside of motorist's lanes with no legal basis to prevent motorists using them. However they counted to the target mileage if cycle paths despite not actually being cycle paths in any practical sense. They also got a few million pounds ring fenced to build a separate cycle path along the A6 to the university from town. A direct commuter route for students and workers at the university. That supposedly ring fenced money disappeared for other cycling farcilities that really busy made it better to drive around town.. it got to the point campaigners took their freedom of information request to the information commissioner. He used every power he had to force the council to state where the money was spent. They refused save says they had no idea where the money went!! The freedom of information commissioner I believe gave up because the council were not releasing want information and there was no way of forcing them. One admittedly unsubstantiated claim was that to divulge the information would result in criminal proceedings against the head of finance and the chief executive. All while being hailed as a CDT success story.
The worst cyclist behaviour I've experienced is the ones that don't stop at the red lights for pedestrian crossings. I've narrowly avoided being hit a couple of times, once in London and once in Leeds, when they've shot around a corner and straight over the crossing when the pedestrians had the green man. I'm all for decent cycle paths/lanes, but they do need to stick to the rules, and should be licensed and accountable for rule breaking. And don't get me started on mobility scooters and adult-size bikes going far too fast on footpaths and expecting pedestrians to jump out of their way.
Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Soil type: sandy, well-drained
Interesting that point. I agree with it on the whole but looking to countries with more cycling as part of life attitudes like Denmark we see similar behaviour. Thus behaviour is unusual and only happens where there are unusually poor junction designs. I wish I could find that bridge video. It's from a highly respected civil engineering academic who made a series of videos about poor cycle bridge design which also includes lead in routes and junctions.
IIRC the one I'm thinking of has cyclists taking pedestrian crossing lights, going the wrong way round the junction and jumping feed lights. That behaviour is obviously wrong but the Danes have no real problem with it possibly because they accept cycling and the way cyclists will do what is safest for them when the design is wrong.
I'm not sure that transfers so well here because junctions almost universally poor for cyclists safety. It's the majority situation where riding through a junction in a town or city is dangerous unless you take control and actually ride I suppose aggressively. Lancaster isn't too bad but one junction I, and all regular cycle commuters in that route, ride outside the middle lane, indeed in the oncoming lane at times before cutting in to the relatively safe zone behind the advanced stop line. It is not about rule breaking due to the arrogance or self importance of us cyclists. It's purely because too not so so is more dangerous for us. It's hard to understand this fully without actually doing it day in day out for a long period of time in all weathers. It's a battle at times just to keep safe and that is simply down to a lack of safety designed into our roads and transportation networks.
I really wish I could take you with me on my old commute at peak time to understand the issues first hand.
I have one more anecdote for you (well one and a half). I used to struggle with this same junction when I first started to cycle commute. Then one day another more experienced commuter cycled past me and said hello before ducking to the outside of the lane and straight through the junction under green light I just point out. A few days later I saw him again but this time I followed him and have done that ever since.
Fast forward 2 or 3 years and I was the confident cyclist and this lady was dithering, scared cyclist in the inside. I pulled alongside her and asked if she was ok. She admitted not knowing where to be at that junction. I told her to simply follow me. She did a and found by following me my confidence and experience helped her. I didn't see her for a week or so and thought I or the junction had put her off. Then she came back and was riding with confidence in the outside lane where it was safer. She did say before I left her that it was a much safer way that I had shown her. I saw her in different places on the route and she really came on in confidence with get cycle commuting style. I'm order to continue with commuting by bike you need to learn your route, get confident/assured and gain experience quickly. It is more dangerous than a metal box but it's healthier and better for the environment.
Right now I'm mixed modal commuting. Cycle, train and cycle commuting. It's too far to cycle the whole earth where I live now.
I had a gardening dilemma this week. I decided to plant more runner beans as a backup in case the weather continues to be dodgy. I've got a pack of 40 beans but only need to plant 20 so the rest I will save until next year. Would it be better to plant the weaker looking beans now and hope the better ones will last longer or should I have planted the best ones now in case they don't last a year or I get hit by a bus or something? It's rather annoying to have to make that choice in the first place rather than just have a pack of decent beans but here we are.
If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
Posts
For example, cycle paths alongside roads start and stop between side roads because drivers have priority from some roads and the main road. Whereas riding on the road you have the same priority over vehicles in the side roads as other main road users. In enlightened countries the cycle path user has priority over both side road users and main road users turning off. What use is a dangerous cycle path anyway?
When most cyclists are considered as doing something wrong at a junction, especially if most are doing the same thing, then look at it from the cyclist's point of view. What could be causing that behaviour. Everyone has the came simple driver that is to be safe and get home or to work. Regular commuting by bike and you soon learn how to be safe. It is highly likely that being safe at certain junctions put cyclists into the frame with moaning motorists. At the end of the day roads are designed for motorists without consideration for pedestrians and cyclists. It is no wonder they do things motorists don't like such as weaving between stationary cars in a traffic jam or waiting cars at lights. The last one is probably intended by road planners considering the way they've put advanced stop lines in for just that, cyclists to get a head start.
Overall, a lot of the criticisms pointed at cyclists come down to the simple fact that in this country motorists are the Gods of the road and everyone must be sacrificed at their wheels. There are very few places designed around other user types and when they are it's usually not even to the relevant design document. I'm sure you are aware that every road and cycle paths feature has a design guidance in the form of these design documents. With road building they're pretty much closely followed for every new road or upgraded old road. With cycle paths local councils ignore them and as a result design in danger for cyclists. If they treated motorists the same there would be an outcry that gets listened to and someone responsible for it would probably lose their job. There's a very good campaigning website based in the Northwest of England that has a rogue's gallery of poorly conceived cycle paths. From the classic 2 yard long cycle path or the one that gives nothing to the cyclist's route but dumps them at a very busy junction where they enter it at a dodgy angle to set them up against other road users.
All in all about 80% or more of bad cyclists behaviour is probably down to be poor road design. If you doubt that then look at how there is little conflict between cyclists and motorists in Holland. It's eye opening to see what can be achieved.
On the other hand take a look at some of the videos of the badly designed bridges and feed in junctions in Denmark that are available online. You'll see how even in such a high cycling uptake and culture such as the Danish have there's still what is considered bad cyclist behaviour over here simply because of the bad design. It really is that simple, good design breeds less conflict between users but the opposite is also very true.
BTW what works in Holland could work in the UK. However it would take a huge and rapid change in culture. AIUI back in the 60s car use and roads were developing in Holland just as it was developing in the UK. More cars and roads. Also more road deaths, deaths of pedestrians and cyclists. However Dutch society realised it was not working and there was a national conversation about what the wanted. The result was authorities designed routes and suburbs not to suit motorists but other road users. Cyclists got priority with road and indeed town planning. A result was safer routes for cyclists and less conflict if any. It took agreement of all, a complete culture change. Not perfect but closer to it than even the best UK has I reckon.
Monologue over. I just had too much to say because a few more comments annoyed me. Is that not what a curmudgeon does, complain about others and their comments?
BTW my nearest city Lancaster was one of the first 5 cycling demonstration towns that got a lot of seed money to promote cycle use. They used it to paint non enforceable cycle lanes to the inside of motorist's lanes with no legal basis to prevent motorists using them. However they counted to the target mileage if cycle paths despite not actually being cycle paths in any practical sense. They also got a few million pounds ring fenced to build a separate cycle path along the A6 to the university from town. A direct commuter route for students and workers at the university. That supposedly ring fenced money disappeared for other cycling farcilities that really busy made it better to drive around town.. it got to the point campaigners took their freedom of information request to the information commissioner. He used every power he had to force the council to state where the money was spent. They refused save says they had no idea where the money went!! The freedom of information commissioner I believe gave up because the council were not releasing want information and there was no way of forcing them. One admittedly unsubstantiated claim was that to divulge the information would result in criminal proceedings against the head of finance and the chief executive. All while being hailed as a CDT success story.
IIRC the one I'm thinking of has cyclists taking pedestrian crossing lights, going the wrong way round the junction and jumping feed lights. That behaviour is obviously wrong but the Danes have no real problem with it possibly because they accept cycling and the way cyclists will do what is safest for them when the design is wrong.
I'm not sure that transfers so well here because junctions almost universally poor for cyclists safety. It's the majority situation where riding through a junction in a town or city is dangerous unless you take control and actually ride I suppose aggressively. Lancaster isn't too bad but one junction I, and all regular cycle commuters in that route, ride outside the middle lane, indeed in the oncoming lane at times before cutting in to the relatively safe zone behind the advanced stop line. It is not about rule breaking due to the arrogance or self importance of us cyclists. It's purely because too not so so is more dangerous for us. It's hard to understand this fully without actually doing it day in day out for a long period of time in all weathers. It's a battle at times just to keep safe and that is simply down to a lack of safety designed into our roads and transportation networks.
I really wish I could take you with me on my old commute at peak time to understand the issues first hand.
I have one more anecdote for you (well one and a half). I used to struggle with this same junction when I first started to cycle commute. Then one day another more experienced commuter cycled past me and said hello before ducking to the outside of the lane and straight through the junction under green light I just point out. A few days later I saw him again but this time I followed him and have done that ever since.
Fast forward 2 or 3 years and I was the confident cyclist and this lady was dithering, scared cyclist in the inside. I pulled alongside her and asked if she was ok. She admitted not knowing where to be at that junction. I told her to simply follow me. She did a and found by following me my confidence and experience helped her. I didn't see her for a week or so and thought I or the junction had put her off. Then she came back and was riding with confidence in the outside lane where it was safer. She did say before I left her that it was a much safer way that I had shown her. I saw her in different places on the route and she really came on in confidence with get cycle commuting style. I'm order to continue with commuting by bike you need to learn your route, get confident/assured and gain experience quickly. It is more dangerous than a metal box but it's healthier and better for the environment.
Right now I'm mixed modal commuting. Cycle, train and cycle commuting. It's too far to cycle the whole earth where I live now.