For a dog as big as a Doberman (I've had Weimaraners) training has to be meticulous for them to be enjoyable. I've now got a Cav Spaniel who's far less trained but it doesn't matter as much because he's not 40kg of muscle
That really annoyed me. You should year every dog as a large one when training in as far as you need to make sure they're well trained. It's not a question of being too small to be a problem. The dog isn't going to be as happy or well adjusted if you ignore training and bad behaviour/ traits because you can handle them due to low weight.
I have two pet hates when it comes to dog owners. Those who buy totally inappropriate dogs on looks alone (huskies in town) and any dog that's not been trained especially smaller dogs. It might sound harsh and judgemental but imho the owner types in both those pet hates of mine aren't fit to own dogs. Buying dogs for looks not lifestyle and not training your dog especially if your excuse is they're light enough to control.
We've learnt how I own a dog through reading up and experience of our dog. Also we learnt from more experienced people from professionals through to people with breed experience. We feel our dog is worth the effort to train if you don't then don't have it.
Though I understand you're viewpoint, I think you're being totally unrealistic.
All dogs should have basic recall, sitting, waiting, hushing and 'no' commands I agree. But there's far more room for leniency on a Chihuahua to a New Foundland. A Chihuahua who jumps up your nan is irritating, a New Foundland that jumps up your nan is a broken hip. When we're talking about rescuing dogs who's training is unknown and bringing them into a family environment, those margins should be considered.
I've always had dogs, my family has bred gun dogs, but in the real world our circumstances change. Like me, millions of people may be at the busy period of their career and juggling the responsibilities of rearing a young family. As much as I wanted another gundog, I knew I couldn't provide the daily exercise required, my wife had never owned an animal before and I couldn't commit the countless hours of training to ensure they didn't become a chore on family days out, or for anyone who had to dog sit. So my Cav has all the basic training requirements, but I've never had the time or inclination tackle his pulling on the lead for example, where as that was necessity for my Weimaraner's. My Cav begs almost unnoticeable beneath the table at meal times, I wouldn't let my Weimaraner's beg in the dining room because large dogs staring as you eat could make guests intimidated/uncomfortable. My Cav poos in various places in the garden - no problem, they are pretty small and I scoop it straight up as I'm pottering about, my Weimaraner's were trained to poo in the same location so I didn't have to look out my window to see turds of Jurassic proportion on my lawn.
"Start small" is valid advice in every other aspect of life. If you make the inevitable beginner mistakes, the impact remains small. It still holds true with dogs in my opinion. I'd much rather a nation of unruly Pugs, than the mass of untrained Japanese Akitas and American Bulldogs in my local area.
I guess we'll agree to disagree on that. However I put it to you that any dog can inflict pain it's not the degree of pain that's important to avoid but the pain in the first place. BTW a postie friend got bitten by a cav whilst it wasn't as bad as the golden retriever but he got later on he still had to get checked out. I'm sure you would not want your cav to bite anyone.
Then there's the pomeranian where I used to live. It's the nastiest, aggressive dog in the park. Why? Because the owners see it as only a small dog whose weight they can control. It still bit and tugged on the bottom of my jeans once. It was seconds from a boot away when he owner finally decided to pull it back.
Imho small lapdog owners are pretty poor at controlling their dogs through training because the idea is they can't do much because they're so light.
Out of interest, I once read that researchers dna tested a range of domestic dog breeds and compared with the wolf (can't remember which species of wolf but expect it was USA based species as that's where the research was done). The breed genetically closest was a pomeranian dog.
Back to OPs topic. A former work colleague owned a Doberman. Replaced it when it died with another one. She got bitten a couple of times. The cause of the bites were accidental as she was separating her dog and another dog who were fighting. If course her dog was the one being picked on but it seemed to me that the breed was one that provokes a reaction in other dogs.
It reminds me of a packed beer garden in the lakes full of dog owners with their dogs. All getting along OK until a big staffie turned up. All the other dogs started to snarl and bark at the Staffie. What a racket! The only dog not to make a noise got up and made to go towards the other dogs. One low bark and silence. All the other dogs scarpered under their owners tables and the staffie owner left. That dog was a great dane! I thought it was going to drag the table it's lead was tied to plus the two others next to it!!
@NorthernJoe that reminds me of reading years ago that a mastiff is best at doing its job of protecting your family from the comfort of a sofa hear the front door, meaning that a couple of barks from a mastiff will send the n'er do well packing without the dog having to get off the sofa.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I have never heard of anyone being killed, mauled to death by a small breed dog, whereas I have heard of someone mauled by a Doberman, they lock their jaws on and are reluctant to let go. i suppose it’s immaterial now, I don’t suppose the new owners will want to take the dog back, so we can only hope.
Gardening on the wild, windy west side of Dartmoor.
I’m sure I read somewhere of Yorkshire Terriers being described as the hooligans of the dog world, and if they were bigger than they are, it wouldn’t be safe to go out of your home! I’ve only ever been bitten once by a dog, and it was a Yorkie! Re the Doberman adoption, most reputable rehoming agencies would specify what the dog needs, eg owners experienced with the breed, and take your personal circumstances into consideration. If you’ve been offered a dog, and this hasn’t happened, sounds like a recipe for disaster, and really unfair on the dog. Walk away before you get emotionally involved.
I deliver letters for our Parrish councillor,last week I had 3 happy, snappy little dogs go for my fingers and one Massive one, where I actually dropped the letter on the step s bit sharpish,as a kid I was badly bitten by a poodle, people always think that's really funny it wasn't
I have a toy same basic training,when he's off lead liked to go and sit on peoples laps, somehow picking the ones who don't like dogs Took them to a nice nearby park yesterday, there was a guy kneeling down to take a picture,Leo went and sat on his lap,he was fine and laughed.. He's 15 and going deaf,but can run for 3 hours, uphill so you can't keep him on a lead
I have never heard of anyone being killed, mauled to death by a small breed dog, whereas I have heard of someone mauled by a Doberman, they lock their jaws on and are reluctant to let go. i suppose it’s immaterial now, I don’t suppose the new owners will want to take the dog back, so we can only hope.
So it's OK so long as you don't get mauled to death.
Interestingly you hear of urban foxes getting into houses and mauling babies in their cots. Mostly urban myth but do you know how heavy foxes are? 4 to 8kg for a male. Cavalier King Charles spaniels according to kennel club is 5.4 to 8.2kg. Both canivora and both have molars and pre- molars evolved to grip and slice off meat.
The bite force of a Doberman is likely to be greater. A staffie can be a small dog but it's wide jaw allows for a high bite strength even in smaller ones. Weight isn't an issue it's obviously potential to harm.
An inadequately trained and aggressive small dog is only as safe as the owner controlling it. The trouble is when it's not controlled and gets aggressive with the wrong person or dog.
I've seen chihuahua dogs getting aggressive with a staffie. Fortunately on a lead and the owner picked it up. But let it off the lead and that dog would be dealt with by the staffie in the way dogs do. That little dog had problems the biggest part of those problems was the owner's irresponsibility towards training the small dog.
I've got a terrier that's been well trained from a puppy. It's breed is calm for terriers too. It's more likely to run away from aggressive dogs but it's also taught big and small dogs whose owners had no control of. Terriers have a hard bite compared to the soft bite of retriever dogs for example. It's not something I want to see but while our dog being recalled a few times other dogs have either tried to push her around or nip her if they're a small dog. That's while coming back to our recall. It's loud and looks bad but it's so far been sound and fury but no real aggression from her. Every time it's been owners fault and lack of control.
I’m sure I read somewhere of Yorkshire Terriers being described as the hooligans of the dog world, and if they were bigger than they are, it wouldn’t be safe to go out of your home! I’ve only ever been bitten once by a dog, and it was a Yorkie! Re the Doberman adoption, most reputable rehoming agencies would specify what the dog needs, eg owners experienced with the breed, and take your personal circumstances into consideration. If you’ve been offered a dog, and this hasn’t happened, sounds like a recipe for disaster, and really unfair on the dog. Walk away before you get emotionally involved.
Whereas records of dog attacks often have yorkies well behind the likes of retrievers even taking into account differences in breed numbers.
Having said that there's a measure used in USA where three experienced testers review a dogs temperament. Cavs are 85.5% and Dobermans are something like 79%. My dog breed is 91.6%. A pit bull has a higher passing rate than chihuahua meaning it's less likely to attack. Yorkies were at 83%. Jack Russell terriers, long held as snappy dogs, are exactly the same temperament passing rate as cavs at 85.5%.
How true these stats are i have no idea but there are a few breed maligned by public opinion. I like JRTs and have not met an aggressive one but they've got the snappy reputation. That's not been my experience. However give me a scottie or a lapdog and I'm not so sure they're not snappy.
In my experience it can be a small uncontrolled yappy dog that instigates all the animus and the big dog responds and gets the blame. If big dogs behaved as badly as some small dogs do there’d be a lot more trouble.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
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All dogs should have basic recall, sitting, waiting, hushing and 'no' commands I agree. But there's far more room for leniency on a Chihuahua to a New Foundland. A Chihuahua who jumps up your nan is irritating, a New Foundland that jumps up your nan is a broken hip. When we're talking about rescuing dogs who's training is unknown and bringing them into a family environment, those margins should be considered.
I've always had dogs, my family has bred gun dogs, but in the real world our circumstances change. Like me, millions of people may be at the busy period of their career and juggling the responsibilities of rearing a young family. As much as I wanted another gundog, I knew I couldn't provide the daily exercise required, my wife had never owned an animal before and I couldn't commit the countless hours of training to ensure they didn't become a chore on family days out, or for anyone who had to dog sit. So my Cav has all the basic training requirements, but I've never had the time or inclination tackle his pulling on the lead for example, where as that was necessity for my Weimaraner's. My Cav begs almost unnoticeable beneath the table at meal times, I wouldn't let my Weimaraner's beg in the dining room because large dogs staring as you eat could make guests intimidated/uncomfortable. My Cav poos in various places in the garden - no problem, they are pretty small and I scoop it straight up as I'm pottering about, my Weimaraner's were trained to poo in the same location so I didn't have to look out my window to see turds of Jurassic proportion on my lawn.
"Start small" is valid advice in every other aspect of life. If you make the inevitable beginner mistakes, the impact remains small. It still holds true with dogs in my opinion. I'd much rather a nation of unruly Pugs, than the mass of untrained Japanese Akitas and American Bulldogs in my local area.
Then there's the pomeranian where I used to live. It's the nastiest, aggressive dog in the park. Why? Because the owners see it as only a small dog whose weight they can control. It still bit and tugged on the bottom of my jeans once. It was seconds from a boot away when he owner finally decided to pull it back.
Imho small lapdog owners are pretty poor at controlling their dogs through training because the idea is they can't do much because they're so light.
Out of interest, I once read that researchers dna tested a range of domestic dog breeds and compared with the wolf (can't remember which species of wolf but expect it was USA based species as that's where the research was done). The breed genetically closest was a pomeranian dog.
Back to OPs topic. A former work colleague owned a Doberman. Replaced it when it died with another one. She got bitten a couple of times. The cause of the bites were accidental as she was separating her dog and another dog who were fighting. If course her dog was the one being picked on but it seemed to me that the breed was one that provokes a reaction in other dogs.
It reminds me of a packed beer garden in the lakes full of dog owners with their dogs. All getting along OK until a big staffie turned up. All the other dogs started to snarl and bark at the Staffie. What a racket! The only dog not to make a noise got up and made to go towards the other dogs. One low bark and silence. All the other dogs scarpered under their owners tables and the staffie owner left. That dog was a great dane! I thought it was going to drag the table it's lead was tied to plus the two others next to it!!
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
i suppose it’s immaterial now, I don’t suppose the new owners will want to take the dog back, so we can only hope.
Re the Doberman adoption, most reputable rehoming agencies would specify what the dog needs, eg owners experienced with the breed, and take your personal circumstances into consideration. If you’ve been offered a dog, and this hasn’t happened, sounds like a recipe for disaster, and really unfair on the dog. Walk away before you get emotionally involved.
Interestingly you hear of urban foxes getting into houses and mauling babies in their cots. Mostly urban myth but do you know how heavy foxes are? 4 to 8kg for a male. Cavalier King Charles spaniels according to kennel club is 5.4 to 8.2kg. Both canivora and both have molars and pre- molars evolved to grip and slice off meat.
The bite force of a Doberman is likely to be greater. A staffie can be a small dog but it's wide jaw allows for a high bite strength even in smaller ones. Weight isn't an issue it's obviously potential to harm.
An inadequately trained and aggressive small dog is only as safe as the owner controlling it. The trouble is when it's not controlled and gets aggressive with the wrong person or dog.
I've seen chihuahua dogs getting aggressive with a staffie. Fortunately on a lead and the owner picked it up. But let it off the lead and that dog would be dealt with by the staffie in the way dogs do. That little dog had problems the biggest part of those problems was the owner's irresponsibility towards training the small dog.
I've got a terrier that's been well trained from a puppy. It's breed is calm for terriers too. It's more likely to run away from aggressive dogs but it's also taught big and small dogs whose owners had no control of. Terriers have a hard bite compared to the soft bite of retriever dogs for example. It's not something I want to see but while our dog being recalled a few times other dogs have either tried to push her around or nip her if they're a small dog. That's while coming back to our recall. It's loud and looks bad but it's so far been sound and fury but no real aggression from her. Every time it's been owners fault and lack of control.
Having said that there's a measure used in USA where three experienced testers review a dogs temperament. Cavs are 85.5% and Dobermans are something like 79%. My dog breed is 91.6%. A pit bull has a higher passing rate than chihuahua meaning it's less likely to attack. Yorkies were at 83%. Jack Russell terriers, long held as snappy dogs, are exactly the same temperament passing rate as cavs at 85.5%.
How true these stats are i have no idea but there are a few breed maligned by public opinion. I like JRTs and have not met an aggressive one but they've got the snappy reputation. That's not been my experience. However give me a scottie or a lapdog and I'm not so sure they're not snappy.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.