So I'll post some pics in the next couple of days when the gardeners have finished but in the meantime a bit more detail. I'm in London so southern weather. It's an urban garden and I want screening to have two purposes - to divert attention from the houses in the next street and to partially screen the last third of the garden which will have a greenhouse and shed (next year when they can deliver!) and to be a little private from the house. So not full size trees and not a dense screen but something that is attractive for as long as possible. The beds are deep (around 6ft front to back) and I want to plant the screen in the middle with flowers at a lower level in the front side and fruit/veg in the back which will be sort of a kitchen garden. The soil is part mulch and part good soil which has been brought in - we are usually just clay. Also there is a pergola in the middle which I want to grow climbing roses over so if anyone has any tips there it would also help - I want white roses. I hope those details make it clearer and thanks again for your interest.
Since you have new soil added, you could go for something like Tamarix Ramosissima. They should do well as a soft barrier and also create some privacy/screening.
Since you have new soil added, you could go for something like Tamarix Ramosissima. They should do well as a soft barrier and also create some privacy/screening.
Nice but (I probably didn't say) I don't like a lot of pink, I prefer white! Thanks
@fionaquinton - this is why it helps to have the relevant info. You've now said you have a pergola, in the same area as the screening, and want roses, so that changes things if they're all going into the same space. 6 feet might sound big, but once you start adding veg and flowers as well as screening, there's huge competition for everything.
You still haven't said what size the area is - the width etc. It's really very difficult to envisage to be honest.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Ok the gardeners have finished so I have pictures. The measurements are 230cm deep and 520cm long and there are two beds. You'll see the pergola in the middle. The views are taken from the house so you can see the back part of the garden which I want to screen and the neighbouring houses. Full size trees would be too big but something the size of a small cherry would be fine. I think two trees per bed and maybe 3 depending on the spread. The trees will split the bed between the house side and the back side where there is going to be a greenhouse. The roses will be over the pergola.
Because of the pergola in the middle and the roses intended there (they will provide a good part of the desired screen), I think I would prefer two trees there rather than four. If you only do two, they can be bigger and you can buy more mature specimens. Four trees would need to be either small or columnar.
For white roses, do you want double blooms or can they be semi or single? Is fragrance a must? Disease resistance? The path under the pergola looks quite narrow so maybe low thorns?
The photos and dimensions really help thanks for those, all looking great, although it would have been better to line the inner walls of the beds (not the base) with plastic to help retain moisture and prevent the wood from rotting over time. The wood will wick moisture from the soil in the beds, which, given the beds are right against the fence, is not ideal for the fence in particular.
One other thing of concern is I think you are overestimating what you can grow in there, by underestimating how much space both the canopy and the spreading roots of even small trees will occupy. You can underplant trees with bulbs and ground cover plants, maybe squeeze a few perennials in on the sunnier side, but forget growing vegetables in there, veg and tree roots do not mix and you need a separate, dedicated bed for that elsewhere.
I also think you will struggle to get two small trees and a climbing rose either side. If the pergola is around 2m high or a bit more, I think you are looking at trees around 3-3.5m high to screen those houses behind. These will likely have an overhead canopy spread and underground root spread of around 3m too - what grows above, also grows below. If you go for a more upright, columnar tree, remember that the roots don’t shrink to fit, a skinny tree needs to anchor itself with spreading roots too. Whatever you choose, the tree roots will mostly fill the beds over time.
For each climbing rose, allow around 50-70cm space measured from the pergola out into the beds as they will need space and light to grow, they will grow outwards a bit at well as upwards. Plant the rose about 45cm from the pergola, angled towards the pergola slightly to aid training and allow space for its roots.
So you are left with a canopy width of around 4.5m. So one rose, plus either two skinny trees or one spreading one either side.
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Because of the pergola in the middle and the roses intended there (they will provide a good part of the desired screen), I think I would prefer two trees there rather than four. If you only do two, they can be bigger and you can buy more mature specimens. Four trees would need to be either small or columnar.
For white roses, do you want double blooms or can they be semi or single? Is fragrance a must? Disease resistance? The path under the pergola looks quite narrow so maybe low thorns?
The path isn't as narrow as it looks on the picture but I wouldn't want the branches straying inside the pergola. I don't mind about double/semi/single blooms but want lots of flowers. I don't know so much about roses.
The photos and dimensions really help thanks for those, all looking great, although it would have been better to line the inner walls of the beds (not the base) with plastic to help retain moisture and prevent the wood from rotting over time. The wood will wick moisture from the soil in the beds, which, given the beds are right against the fence, is not ideal for the fence in particular.
One other thing of concern is I think you are overestimating what you can grow in there, by underestimating how much space both the canopy and the spreading roots of even small trees will occupy. You can underplant trees with bulbs and ground cover plants, maybe squeeze a few perennials in on the sunnier side, but forget growing vegetables in there, veg and tree roots do not mix and you need a separate, dedicated bed for that elsewhere.
I also think you will struggle to get two small trees and a climbing rose either side. If the pergola is around 2m high or a bit more, I think you are looking at trees around 3-3.5m high to screen those houses behind. These will likely have an overhead canopy spread and underground root spread of around 3m too - what grows above, also grows below. If you go for a more upright, columnar tree, remember that the roots don’t shrink to fit, a skinny tree needs to anchor itself with spreading roots too. Whatever you choose, the tree roots will mostly fill the beds over time.
For each climbing rose, allow around 50-70cm space measured from the pergola out into the beds as they will need space and light to grow, they will grow outwards a bit at well as upwards. Plant the rose about 45cm from the pergola, angled towards the pergola slightly to aid training and allow space for its roots.
So you are left with a canopy width of around 4.5m. So one rose, plus either two skinny trees or one spreading one either side.
There is plastic where the beds meet the fence. Certainly one of my perennial problems is overplanting so I must try to avoid that! I didn't expect to grow much fruit/veg - probably just strawberries - at the back and one row of annuals or perennials on the other side. I want a uniform look (but I don't mean tidy) so would have the same plants such as Cosmos all along the front. I'm veering towards cherry for the trees but still open to suggestions.
The path isn't as narrow as it looks on the picture but I wouldn't want the branches straying inside the pergola. I don't mind about double/semi/single blooms but want lots of flowers. I don't know so much about roses.
Roses are tricky. You almost never get all wanted traits in one variety, it's always some compromise. And climbing white roses are even trickier. First, they are rarely pure white. Quite often their are either blush pink or cream or light yellow. Buds are often pink or even red. Second, there are some very pretty roses among once bloomers but I would assume you want a repeater and the price for the repeat is most probably going to be poor disease resistance.
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I hope those details make it clearer and thanks again for your interest.
You still haven't said what size the area is - the width etc. It's really very difficult to envisage to be honest.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
One other thing of concern is I think you are overestimating what you can grow in there, by underestimating how much space both the canopy and the spreading roots of even small trees will occupy. You can underplant trees with bulbs and ground cover plants, maybe squeeze a few perennials in on the sunnier side, but forget growing vegetables in there, veg and tree roots do not mix and you need a separate, dedicated bed for that elsewhere.
I also think you will struggle to get two small trees and a climbing rose either side. If the pergola is around 2m high or a bit more, I think you are looking at trees around 3-3.5m high to screen those houses behind. These will likely have an overhead canopy spread and underground root spread of around 3m too - what grows above, also grows below. If you go for a more upright, columnar tree, remember that the roots don’t shrink to fit, a skinny tree needs to anchor itself with spreading roots too. Whatever you choose, the tree roots will mostly fill the beds over time.
For each climbing rose, allow around 50-70cm space measured from the pergola out into the beds as they will need space and light to grow, they will grow outwards a bit at well as upwards. Plant the rose about 45cm from the pergola, angled towards the pergola slightly to aid training and allow space for its roots.
So you are left with a canopy width of around 4.5m. So one rose, plus either two skinny trees or one spreading one either side.
I didn't expect to grow much fruit/veg - probably just strawberries - at the back and one row of annuals or perennials on the other side. I want a uniform look (but I don't mean tidy) so would have the same plants such as Cosmos all along the front. I'm veering towards cherry for the trees but still open to suggestions.