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Ideas please - penstemons and other perennials for rich soil?

NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
I have a new bed of mostly pink roses. My summers are hot, but this bed is mostly east facing with morning sun. The soil is heavy alkaline clay but super-enriched with manure, mulched with ericaceous compost and will remain luscious for the roses. Drainage is not great despite the quantities of grit mixed in.

The roses are bombing away, but I’m struggling to get the underplanting of purple and white perennials (mostly salvias and hardy geraniums) to grow without getting lush and floppy, with few flowers. Most of my go-to sun-loving, drought-tolerant plants just aren’t working here.

So what likes it rich? Would penstemons work? hebes/parahebes? hermorocalis?

Any other suggestions please for shortish purple/white perennials or dwarf shrubby things that will stand to attention and flower well in these rich conditions? They must be able to take a bit of heat but they won’t lack for water!
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
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  • Pete.8Pete.8 Posts: 11,340
    I have a group of Falstaff roses underplanted with verbena rigida.
    The short purple flowering stems (about 1ft) really pop with colour.
    I mulch the area every spring but that's about it.
    They spread via roots just under the soil surface and I often dig bits up by mistake when weeding, but they are slowly covering the area.
    I also have several varieties of penstemon in the same area.
    'Garnet' flowers reliably and prolifically from June (with a pause of about 3 weeks after the 1st flush) to the first frosts if deadheaded.
    P. Raven and Hidcote Pink also give a long display but not as floriferous as Garnet

    Billericay - Essex

    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
    Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
  • SydRoySydRoy Posts: 167
    Hmm..Astrantia or Bergenia maybe...or catmint perhaps.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    Thanks @Pete.8, so you think both penstemons and verbena rigida will take those rich soil conditions? Sounds a personal question but how rich are you? Soil-wise I mean!

    Thanks also @SydRoy, astrantia is an excellent idea, likes ‘humus-rich soil’ apparently so that sounds promising.
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • Pete.8Pete.8 Posts: 11,340
    The richness of my soil is sadly not reflected by my bank balance :)

    I put the roses in about 10 years ago and manured the area well with well-rotted farmyard manure before they went in.
    Every couple of years I get 40 x 70L bags of rotted manure of some sort which I use on the borders and raised beds.
    In spring I give each bush a small handful of Toprose and a mulch with my compost.
    So the soil is good. Slightly acid Essex clay but dries to concrete in the summer.

    I have astrantia Shaggy growing nearby and that does well too, but such a brief flowering period. I recently bought astrantia Roma just because it doesn't set seed, so flowers throughout the season


    Billericay - Essex

    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
    Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    Indeed, I always find my garden ambitions are far greater than contents of my wallet, Pete.

    So Penstemon, Astrantia and V. Rigida are three good contenders. Good stuff.

    Anyone know whether small hebes/parahebes would also thrive in rich soil? A few small shrubby things wouldn’t go amiss...
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • edhelkaedhelka Posts: 2,351
    What about ground covering clematis? It would need watering but as do roses.
  • OmoriOmori Posts: 1,674
    I have Echinacea in a rose bed that doesn’t have the best drainage (former site of a garage that was demolished). The soil has been heavily amended as you’d expect for the roses. The Echinacea do well there and there are so many different varieties to choose from.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    @edhelka, I could just picture a ground cover clematis there. So far, not much luck, a Kokonoe Florida x Integrifolia died there and a Durandii Diversifolia on an obelisk does give me some small, pinched flowers but it’s struggling in the heat, with scant, unhealthy foliage. I think I was trying to be too clever in my choices.

    @Omori, that’s interesting to hear Echinacea do well for you in that location. Fortuitously, I do have some Echinacea White Swan I was wanting to relocate, so I will definitely try them there.

    Thanks both.
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • Lizzie27Lizzie27 Posts: 12,494
    Some of the purple heucheras might suit - Amethyst Mist is a lovely soft purple. My parahebe also seems happy in our clay soil in sunshine. 
    North East Somerset - Clay soil over limestone
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    I have a parahebe planted under roses - I can imagine that working well.
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