But my plants have access to the soil underneath..It would be easy to do the no dig within a raised bed from what I've read so far..Sorry it still doesn't make sense to me even after reading. I'd understand it if my beds were high and on slabs... I'll keep reading!
The reason for the raised beds was mainly a psychological one and also we like the way raised beds look. They have tidied up what was a very messy area! We never put them in because we thought we would get more or better veg....so for us they were much needed!!
It doesn't matter that the plants can reach the soil underneath, if all the nutrients are locked up in a form plants cannot use. Hence why wood chip paths have been the answer for long-term no dig, in beds or not. The chips are the source of the fungi that form a network that releases the nutrients in the underlying soil into a form plants can use, then transport them to the plants.
What you are currently doing is growing in large containers, so clearly the nutrients get used up, the soil underneath can't help, the nutrients are not in a form that plants can use, even if the roots penetrate that far. It's dead dirt, not soil. Just think what it would be like on a traditional plot with no amendment, same situation. Nobody would expect it to grow much. You can't get to the underlying soil to add amendment, without digging out the whole of the raised bed!
So you either keep adding tons of amendments, which is actually far easier on a traditional plot than it ever would be in a raised bed... ...and exactly what traditionalists have said all along when raised beds were put forward as 'permaculture' which in themselves they are not..
...or you form a soil ecosystem by introducing wood chip paths and see an improvement in your yields that way.
I am very familiar with Dowding, I used his methods 20 years ago. I still incorporate some elements into my raised beds now and junked the ones that don’t work for me. But if the ‘modern no dig method’ does not need the addition of ‘any of those things’ including homemade compost, for example, what is the growing medium’ that you ‘simply lay on top’ or ‘occasionally top up’ with? Er, you state this is homemade compost. Sorry, you’ve lost me there and I am happy to be lost!
Polb, simply placing a shallow frame on the soil to act as containment, as you and I do, is not detrimental to the soil ecosystem, as you say, the plants grow down into the underlying soil. Mine are actually about half the height of Montys. Just keep adding organic material, the most you can get your hands on and of whatever type and you will do fine. Good luck!
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Planted out the first cabbages a couple of weeks ago - they up and died. Planted out another 8 seedlings last week - about 2 seem to be perky, the others look definitely sick! All other summer veges are fine - too hot maybe for the cabbages, but if I don't start planting my brassica now - we won't be having much for winter - except miniature veges with big leaves!!
I am very familiar with Dowding, I used his methods 20 years ago. I still incorporate some elements into my raised beds now and junked the ones that don’t work for me. But if the ‘modern no dig method’ does not need the addition of ‘any of those things’ including homemade compost, for example, what is the growing medium’ that you ‘simply lay on top’ or ‘occasionally top up’ with? Er, you state this is homemade compost. Sorry, you’ve lost me there and I am happy to be lost!
Polb, simply placing a shallow frame on the soil to act as containment, as you and I do, is not detrimental to the soil ecosystem, as you say, the plants grow down into the underlying soil. Mine are actually about half the height of Montys. Just keep adding organic material, the most you can get your hands on and of whatever type and you will do fine. Good luck!
There is an initial use of laying down growing medium. Followed by occasional topping up.
Is it so hard to watch the video I posted at the start which rather overwhelmingly proves the effectiveness of the method? I did state all this in posts above btw.
PS Dowding did not fully adopt the approach until 2012 at Homeacres, so I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing or not.
If you build raised beds and fill them with traditional commercial potting compost then yes, the nutrients will be gone in about 3 months and you need constant additions of composted garden waste and/or manure to enrich it.
If the raised beds are simply planks of wood marked out on soil which is then cleared of weeds, mulched and planted then anything that is added is going to interact with the soil below, including the roots of any plants. I don't see raised beds as sealed containers but as areas where i grow and don't walk whereas the paths between are where I walk and don't grow.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
The thing most people forget is the depth of the raised bed is central to the discussion. If your raised beds are only 12" deep, and you grow plants than only have 8" roots, it's clearly obvious how you have to manage the nutrients.
I've grown in raised beds for years with consistent yields. The beds are made out of old tile crates, and most sit on a slab base so I have complete control over the medium. Parsnips go in crates over 4 feet deep/high. Courgette go in 24" beds. After each growing season, I remove at least a third, and sometimes half of the old compost and replace it with fresh. I rotate crops as necessary, and I throw worms into the beds if I find any.
Garden soil has minerals in it, basically a source of slow-release inorganic nutrients. Not all of them are water-soluble and accessible to plants but many of them are, it just takes time (calcium from limestone, potassium from feldspar and mica etc.). Normal soil can supply almost everything for most plants with the exception of nitrogen, that needs to come from organic matter. Compost is an organic source of nutrients (NPK and many others), they become available when the organic matter decomposes, the majority of them at the beginning of the process and the rest slowly later.
I would say there has to be a huge difference between a raised bed filled with compost only and a raised bed filled with topsoil with added organic matter (compost, manure).
This is my second year of growing in pots. I grow exclusively in large pots - so bascially raised beds.
Yield this year has been phenomenal for my pumpkins, courgettes, patty pans, climbing and dwarf french beans, peas, calebrese, JBL's, beets and I can't remember what else! Remember all of these plants are growing in pots.
Last year was my first serious veg growing year (again in pots) and at the end of the season I was lazy and just left all the pots as they were, sat out. I pulled out whatever veg plant was in them but just left the pots with the compost outside all year.
To my shock this year, when I went to amend the soil and top up compost (as compost decomposes over time so the level drops) I found each and every pot full of earthworms. Not just one or two but every turn of the hand fork revealed huge earthworms...
Soil in pots or raised beds is anything but dead.
That's not to say I havnt had problems and lost plants this year OP. I've lost many sadly! Either due to weather or pests and now I'm dealing with powdery mildew.
Each of your plant difficulties or losses have been due to a specific problem (eg weather/pest/nutrition) but in order to find out what exactly (and sometimes you never do) you would need to go through its entire care history to be able to pinpoint where a problem arose.
I know for certain with pests and mildew, you need to be looking at your plants every single day to stay on top of problems or things go downhill very much and very fast.
Here's to hoping you have a better rest of the season, fingers crossed we get some proper sunshine again!
Thanks everyone for your encouraging posts. The raised beds were full of garden soil originally. I've been out at dark and discovered several large slugs and since their removal the spinach and radishes are looking better!! I obviously need to be more vigilant!
Posts
The reason for the raised beds was mainly a psychological one and also we like the way raised beds look. They have tidied up what was a very messy area! We never put them in because we thought we would get more or better veg....so for us they were much needed!!
What you are currently doing is growing in large containers, so clearly the nutrients get used up, the soil underneath can't help, the nutrients are not in a form that plants can use, even if the roots penetrate that far. It's dead dirt, not soil. Just think what it would be like on a traditional plot with no amendment, same situation. Nobody would expect it to grow much. You can't get to the underlying soil to add amendment, without digging out the whole of the raised bed!
So you either keep adding tons of amendments, which is actually far easier on a traditional plot than it ever would be in a raised bed... ...and exactly what traditionalists have said all along when raised beds were put forward as 'permaculture' which in themselves they are not..
...or you form a soil ecosystem by introducing wood chip paths and see an improvement in your yields that way.
Polb, simply placing a shallow frame on the soil to act as containment, as you and I do, is not detrimental to the soil ecosystem, as you say, the plants grow down into the underlying soil. Mine are actually about half the height of Montys. Just keep adding organic material, the most you can get your hands on and of whatever type and you will do fine. Good luck!
Is it so hard to watch the video I posted at the start which rather overwhelmingly proves the effectiveness of the method? I did state all this in posts above btw.
PS Dowding did not fully adopt the approach until 2012 at Homeacres, so I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing or not.
If you build raised beds and fill them with traditional commercial potting compost then yes, the nutrients will be gone in about 3 months and you need constant additions of composted garden waste and/or manure to enrich it.
If the raised beds are simply planks of wood marked out on soil which is then cleared of weeds, mulched and planted then anything that is added is going to interact with the soil below, including the roots of any plants. I don't see raised beds as sealed containers but as areas where i grow and don't walk whereas the paths between are where I walk and don't grow.
I've grown in raised beds for years with consistent yields. The beds are made out of old tile crates, and most sit on a slab base so I have complete control over the medium. Parsnips go in crates over 4 feet deep/high. Courgette go in 24" beds. After each growing season, I remove at least a third, and sometimes half of the old compost and replace it with fresh. I rotate crops as necessary, and I throw worms into the beds if I find any.
Never had a problem.
Yield this year has been phenomenal for my pumpkins, courgettes, patty pans, climbing and dwarf french beans, peas, calebrese, JBL's, beets and I can't remember what else! Remember all of these plants are growing in pots.
Last year was my first serious veg growing year (again in pots) and at the end of the season I was lazy and just left all the pots as they were, sat out. I pulled out whatever veg plant was in them but just left the pots with the compost outside all year.
To my shock this year, when I went to amend the soil and top up compost (as compost decomposes over time so the level drops) I found each and every pot full of earthworms. Not just one or two but every turn of the hand fork revealed huge earthworms...
Soil in pots or raised beds is anything but dead.
That's not to say I havnt had problems and lost plants this year OP. I've lost many sadly! Either due to weather or pests and now I'm dealing with powdery mildew.
Each of your plant difficulties or losses have been due to a specific problem (eg weather/pest/nutrition) but in order to find out what exactly (and sometimes you never do) you would need to go through its entire care history to be able to pinpoint where a problem arose.
I know for certain with pests and mildew, you need to be looking at your plants every single day to stay on top of problems or things go downhill very much and very fast.
Here's to hoping you have a better rest of the season, fingers crossed we get some proper sunshine again!