Thanks - I'd agree.. They are not going to work for everyone for lots of reasons. I look forward to seeing how things go next year!
The manure you get, has this been left for a year or so or can you just add fresh horse manure at the end of the year to let it rot down on the raised bed?
There's alot to be said for the No Dog method which includes layering cardboard and organic matter on bare soil while it is resting between crops, even if only for a week or two. You can plant straight through it and, because it cuts the light, it will help stop any stray weed seeds in the soil below from germinating. Just make sure you remove any staples and plastic tape first.
That's exactly the method that Richard Perkins uses (video I posted) and the method being widely adopted by professional market gardeners who have an interest in regenerative farming and soil health.
Perhaps I should have said, that I read direct comparisons of productivity, comparing traditional plots to raised beds. Was always the same, the raised beds were losing productivity. It's science, I can't help it for fans of raised beds.
The thinking behind modern no dig (Fortier, Dowding, Perkins and many others) is there are plenty of nutrients in the soil, they just need to be released or converted to a form that plants can use. It is done by forming an ecosystem in the underlying soil, by simply placing the growing medium over the top. The wood chip paths are part of the system, forming a network of beneficial fungi that act as nutrient transport systems. It is why it is so successful the results speak for themselves. Because it is all true and it works.
Feed the soil not the plants, is the concept. Constant feeding in raised beds to grow stuff, is nothing but a sign the medium is totally exhausted. It's backward thinking.
@polb We store the horse manure in large dumpy bags. We have used some after about 3-4 months, but keep this away from plant roots. Ideally we keep it in the bags for one year, prior to use.
In late Autumn, we also put fresh horse manure on our empty beds, and leave it to break down over Winter. The exception is where we know we are going to grow crops the following year that do not like enriched soil. We also use fresh manure sometimes around squashes, but not anywhere near the roots.
GemmaJF - Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference to no dig in a raised bed that is direct onto the soil and no dig onto soil (no raised bed)
Just about everything.
In the raised bed you are growing in a contained box. It has a finite amount of nutrients. That get used up. So you need to constantly add amendment and in many cases directly feed the plants after x many years. It's a failed approach to permaculture because it misses the very point many traditonalists made, you can't keep taking out, without putting back.
In the modern no dig system one is creating an entire ecosystem and restoring the underlying soil, which is packed with nutrients, that simply are not yet in an available form for plants to use. As the underground ecosystem forms, they become available, all that is needed is rare and occasional topping up of the beds with growing medium, which can be just home produced compost.
Look into it, in many cases it is the same people who made raised bed popular that have now largely abandoned them for the new approach. That in itself should be of interest.
Feed the soil not the plants, is the concept. Constant feeding in raised beds to grow stuff, is nothing but a sign the medium is totally exhausted. It's backward thinking.
Im not really sure what you mean by this, Gemma? Everyone has talked about manure, homemade compost, comfrey, nettles... all feed the veg by feeding the soil they grow in. There are probably some raised bedders that never improve their soil and just chuck a load of inorganic ferts down, but that bad practice could equally apply to the no-raisers, dig, no dig, whatever.
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
hmm..sorry I still don't quite understand the big difference when the raised bed sits on the soil.. It makes sense more if something is below like slabs or a thick weed membrane.. and/or the beds are very tall/high. Some of the beds I have are fairly low and the roots go down to the soil below the raised beds. So the edging of them acts like a divide - if that makes sense. They are like open containers - not that different to Monty Don's approach I think?
I should get a chance to have a look into it all more this weekend as I really don't have much experience. Lots to read and watch!! Thank you everyone for your input - sharing experiences and advice. Learning lots and really appreciate people taking the time to reply and help
hmm..sorry I still don't quite understand the big difference when the raised bed sits on the soil.. It makes sense more if something is below like slabs or a thick weed membrane.. and/or the beds are very tall/high. Some of the beds I have are fairly low and the roots go down to the soil below the raised beds. So the edging of them acts like a divide - if that makes sense. They are like open containers - not that different to Monty Don's approach I think?
I should get a chance to have a look into it all more this weekend as I really don't have much experience. Lots to read and watch!! Thank you everyone for your input - sharing experiences and advice. Learning lots and really appreciate people taking the time to reply and help
You only have half the solution. It is sitting on the soil, but the soil underneath has all the nutrients locked up in a form that is not available to plants. Because an ecosystem does not exist to release them. So over the past few years, the veg has just taken all the nutrients out of the growing medium, well at least that is what it seems from your description of repeatedly reducing yield. The weakened plants are then at the mercy of every pest going.
Perhaps your solution is simply to add a ton of amendment to make up for what has been taken so far, then replace the gravel with wood chip. The wood chip is totally essential for the network of underground fungal growth to release and transport nutrients to your veg from the underlying soil.
I can't actually see a reason not to keep your raised beds, it's more of a case they were never a necessity.
The funny thing is the 'new' approach isn't all that new. It can be traced back at least 60 years, it took a while for people to understand why it worked so well, the science that explains it, is generally a lot more recent.
If you consider plain 'dirt' has more nutrients in it than any plant needs, all that is needed is a way to make those nutrients available to plants. That's when dirt becomes soil.
Feed the soil not the plants, is the concept. Constant feeding in raised beds to grow stuff, is nothing but a sign the medium is totally exhausted. It's backward thinking.
Im not really sure what you mean by this, Gemma? Everyone has talked about manure, homemade compost, comfrey, nettles... all feed the veg by feeding the soil they grow in. There are probably some raised bedders that never improve their soil and just chuck a load of inorganic ferts down, but that bad practice could equally apply to the no-raisers, dig, no dig, whatever.
The no-dig I'm talking about doesn't need any of those things. Look into it!
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The manure you get, has this been left for a year or so or can you just add fresh horse manure at the end of the year to let it rot down on the raised bed?
Perhaps I should have said, that I read direct comparisons of productivity, comparing traditional plots to raised beds. Was always the same, the raised beds were losing productivity. It's science, I can't help it for fans of raised beds.
The thinking behind modern no dig (Fortier, Dowding, Perkins and many others) is there are plenty of nutrients in the soil, they just need to be released or converted to a form that plants can use. It is done by forming an ecosystem in the underlying soil, by simply placing the growing medium over the top. The wood chip paths are part of the system, forming a network of beneficial fungi that act as nutrient transport systems. It is why it is so successful the results speak for themselves. Because it is all true and it works.
Feed the soil not the plants, is the concept. Constant feeding in raised beds to grow stuff, is nothing but a sign the medium is totally exhausted. It's backward thinking.
In late Autumn, we also put fresh horse manure on our empty beds, and leave it to break down over Winter. The exception is where we know we are going to grow crops the following year that do not like enriched soil. We also use fresh manure sometimes around squashes, but not anywhere near the roots.
In the raised bed you are growing in a contained box. It has a finite amount of nutrients. That get used up. So you need to constantly add amendment and in many cases directly feed the plants after x many years. It's a failed approach to permaculture because it misses the very point many traditonalists made, you can't keep taking out, without putting back.
In the modern no dig system one is creating an entire ecosystem and restoring the underlying soil, which is packed with nutrients, that simply are not yet in an available form for plants to use. As the underground ecosystem forms, they become available, all that is needed is rare and occasional topping up of the beds with growing medium, which can be just home produced compost.
Look into it, in many cases it is the same people who made raised bed popular that have now largely abandoned them for the new approach. That in itself should be of interest.
I should get a chance to have a look into it all more this weekend as I really don't have much experience. Lots to read and watch!! Thank you everyone for your input - sharing experiences and advice. Learning lots and really appreciate people taking the time to reply and help
Perhaps your solution is simply to add a ton of amendment to make up for what has been taken so far, then replace the gravel with wood chip. The wood chip is totally essential for the network of underground fungal growth to release and transport nutrients to your veg from the underlying soil.
I can't actually see a reason not to keep your raised beds, it's more of a case they were never a necessity.
The funny thing is the 'new' approach isn't all that new. It can be traced back at least 60 years, it took a while for people to understand why it worked so well, the science that explains it, is generally a lot more recent.
If you consider plain 'dirt' has more nutrients in it than any plant needs, all that is needed is a way to make those nutrients available to plants. That's when dirt becomes soil.