Thank you for that in depth explanation @edhelka! Very interesting and insightful.
I'm not knowledgeable or experienced enough to have any opinion of breeding (and I had to look up pernetianas) so I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I wonder if disease resistance is measured against an untreated rose? I would like to think so.
I would be interested in recognising more factors of breeding Vs environment, I hope I can pick this up over time.
Ive noticed that many of the “reviews” on there are solely based on the information available on the David Austin website and not on first hand experience. Or at least that’s how they’re written!
Positive and negatives are taken straight off the info for the roses e.g. “bloom size only listed as medium” or “disease resistance only average”. The review is the description off the DA website with a few paragraphs of expanded info based on the fact sheet (like discussing light scent) and then comparison with a couple of other roses in a similar way (“Golden celebration in comparison is a similar colour but with a strong scent”) but with no actual experience written.
Thats not every review on there, just a lot of the ones I’ve looked at read that way!
So I’d definitely take the ratings with a pinch of salt.
RE blackspot, none of my DA roses got blackspot last year (only first year of roses though, so maybe there wasn’t much of it about in the garden, could be different this year) The only roses that did were Arthur Bell, Remembrance and Amber Queen which we’re all in small pots and Ghislaine De Feligonde, but she only developed it I think because she stayed evergreen through the whole of winter so had a long time for it to build up. Evidently didn’t get bad enough to shed leaf.
The others were all very fresh looking when I went to defoliate in Feb.
As you suggested though, so much depends on where in the world you’re growing them!
Interesting discussion re DA yellow/apricot roses and also about reviews/disease resistance according to your growing conditions. I have very challenging, variable conditions, with cold winters, extremely hot summers, sometimes bone dry, often wet and humid, plus strong gusty winds - basically anything you can throw at a rose happens here!
Here is my experience of the following yellow/peach roses:
Charles Darwin - weak, spindly stems, blackspot-prone, blooms sparse and ball and crisp in the heat (and ball the rain) usually a disgusting dirty cream colour. No fragrance. All-round dreadful here, even relocated to a pot in a very sheltered position. Now dumped. Golden Celebration - lovely lime-green, fresh foliage, much stronger, more heat and disease resistant, but very floppy, long octopus stems, much better yellow blooms that only crisp in extreme temps. Fragrant. I was going to dump it, but decided to go with the flow and train it up a short obelisk this year to see if it works better that way, as it’s impossible to keep in shrub form. Lady of Shallot - similar story to Charles Darwin, except gorgeous in early season. Very prone to blackspot, all those tiny leaves means keeping it clean is impossible. My favourite blooms, but so fleeting... I am hanging on to it against all common sense. Lady Emma Hamilton - All round excellent compact rose, very pretty, healthy reddish foliage and very strong and floriferous... if only the blooms didn’t turn such a disgusting stripy, blotchy mess in the heat. Would do really well in the UK, I think, if you like the colour. Hanging onto because it is my OH’s favourite!
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
@Mr. Vine Eye Yes, some of the Rightroses reviews are better than others but I hoped that they at least grew them for one year.
I keep forgetting where you are. It's interesting that you needed to defoliate your roses. I only needed to defoliate two - The Generous Gardener and Scented Garden, both in sheltered positions and basically blackspot-immune. The rest lost it leaves but often to string winds and normal ageing, not only blackspot.
I think the key difference with our climate is our wet August. We don't have fungal problems in June and July but once August weather sets in, it gets bad quickly. Our September and October are also significantly wetter than most of England.
Balling is another problem. Charles Darwin balls for me a lot, or not completely balls but the outer petals rot and it looks ugly. The same problem with Scepter'd Isle. The petals are so thin and delicate that they have no chance here. BTW Scepter'd Isle is my biggest disappointment of 2019. It was completely defoliated (by mid-October), it balled and there was no repeat. I am curious to see if it gets better this season but if it doesn't, it goes.
'Molineux' is a good apricot/yellow... no problems with disease for me.. and one of those rare Austin's that takes off as soon as you plant it... tea scented, continuous bloom..
@Marlorena that’s beautiful. Looking for a yellow rose to plant over my dead tortoise in daughters garden ( he was named after my Dad who liked very few flowers but tolerated yellow roses) I was thinking the new DA but Molineux could be an option. Thank you 😊
I was surprised by the how leafy everything stayed. Obviously was just so mild and most of my roses were in sheltered spots, in corners or next to fences or walls in a small garden.
Had to defoliate all of them apart from the three in pots.
Introduced Silas Marner and Gabriel Oak to the garden today. My partner is self-isolating so it gave me time to get outside and build a new paved area in the middle of my garden. Really chuffed with the result :-)
Silas Marner - the bright red shoots are beautiful!
Gabriel Oak - never bought a bare root before but followed instructions to the letter so hopefully it’ll take off :-)
Digging the hole
Final setup - Silas in the barrel, Gabriel in the pot, and space for more!!
@edhelka - I think you will always struggle with blackspot in your climate, as Wales is wetter than the rest of the UK so you may have to just resign yourself to it. Have you tried sprinkling sulphur around your roses? I'm thinking of trying that this year as I always have a problem with BS as well.
@Lizzie27 You are probably right. But I've already found several varieties that do well here and after this year, there will be more (hopefully). I could buy more of the good ones and enjoy disease-free pretty garden but I enjoy trialling new roses and I also love many roses (usually the really fragrant ones) even though they get BS.
Posts
I'm not knowledgeable or experienced enough to have any opinion of breeding (and I had to look up pernetianas) so I appreciate you taking the time to explain. I wonder if disease resistance is measured against an untreated rose? I would like to think so.
I would be interested in recognising more factors of breeding Vs environment, I hope I can pick this up over time.
RE - Right Roses
Ive noticed that many of the “reviews” on there are solely based on the information available on the David Austin website and not on first hand experience. Or at least that’s how they’re written!
Positive and negatives are taken straight off the info for the roses e.g. “bloom size only listed as medium” or “disease resistance only average”. The review is the description off the DA website with a few paragraphs of expanded info based on the fact sheet (like discussing light scent) and then comparison with a couple of other roses in a similar way (“Golden celebration in comparison is a similar colour but with a strong scent”) but with no actual experience written.
Thats not every review on there, just a lot of the ones I’ve looked at read that way!
So I’d definitely take the ratings with a pinch of salt.
RE blackspot, none of my DA roses got blackspot last year (only first year of roses though, so maybe there wasn’t much of it about in the garden, could be different this year) The only roses that did were Arthur Bell, Remembrance and Amber Queen which we’re all in small pots and Ghislaine De Feligonde, but she only developed it I think because she stayed evergreen through the whole of winter so had a long time for it to build up. Evidently didn’t get bad enough to shed leaf.
The others were all very fresh looking when I went to defoliate in Feb.
As you suggested though, so much depends on where in the world you’re growing them!
Here is my experience of the following yellow/peach roses:
Charles Darwin - weak, spindly stems, blackspot-prone, blooms sparse and ball and crisp in the heat (and ball the rain) usually a disgusting dirty cream colour. No fragrance. All-round dreadful here, even relocated to a pot in a very sheltered position. Now dumped.
Golden Celebration - lovely lime-green, fresh foliage, much stronger, more heat and disease resistant, but very floppy, long octopus stems, much better yellow blooms that only crisp in extreme temps. Fragrant. I was going to dump it, but decided to go with the flow and train it up a short obelisk this year to see if it works better that way, as it’s impossible to keep in shrub form.
Lady of Shallot - similar story to Charles Darwin, except gorgeous in early season. Very prone to blackspot, all those tiny leaves means keeping it clean is impossible. My favourite blooms, but so fleeting... I am hanging on to it against all common sense.
Lady Emma Hamilton - All round excellent compact rose, very pretty, healthy reddish foliage and very strong and floriferous... if only the blooms didn’t turn such a disgusting stripy, blotchy mess in the heat. Would do really well in the UK, I think, if you like the colour. Hanging onto because it is my OH’s favourite!
BTW Scepter'd Isle is my biggest disappointment of 2019. It was completely defoliated (by mid-October), it balled and there was no repeat. I am curious to see if it gets better this season but if it doesn't, it goes.
Had to defoliate all of them apart from the three in pots.
Cuttings definitely look like a success!
Silas Marner - the bright red shoots are beautiful!
@edhelka - I think you will always struggle with blackspot in your climate, as Wales is wetter than the rest of the UK so you may have to just resign yourself to it. Have you tried sprinkling sulphur around your roses?
I'm thinking of trying that this year as I always have a problem with BS as well.