I suppose freedom of choice can open up these grey areas in life or in certain situations. There does tend to be some people, in life generally, who display a way of thinking that it's their way and no other way. As in politics, the opinion divide is massive and one side tends to dominate over others at any given time. People can have a very critical view of others whose opinions differ from their own and this should be avoided if possible....particularly on any type of forum where misunderstandings can occur with the absence of observing someone in real terms. ie facial expression, body language etc. Dangers can lurk in part of our lives and it's up to each and every one of us, to make a personal choice as to what is best for them in any given situation.
Isn't that a very selfish attitude tho'? I'm all right Jack. Where would we be if everyone behaved like that?
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
I believe vaccines are the socially responsible thing to do. With covid, there's the added social gestures of self-isolating if infected - and that applies to colds, flu and other infectious diseases - and the barrier gestures such as wearing a mask and using hand gels.
Or are we all to put ourselves first because it's easier or more convenient not to think of the consequences for others?
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Does anyone know if those who catch COVID a few weeks after being vaccinated are likely to have a lower viral load? If so, does this mean if they infect someone else, the amount of viral load available for reinfection could be less than if they had not had a recent vaccine.
I realise everybody is different and so the immune response to the vaccine varies. I just want to know 'in average conditions' does the aftermath of having the vaccine mean the viral load in that person, if infected a few weeks after the vaccine, will be reduced because of the vaccine, making them slightly less dangerous to the average person they come into contact with?
Very sorry if this is a stupid question. I don't know enough science to be sure, hence the question. Thank you.
Sorry to witness the demise of the forum. 😥😥😥😡😡😡I am Spartacus
I believe vaccines are the socially responsible thing to do. With covid, there's the added social gestures of self-isolating if infected - and that applies to colds, flu and other infectious diseases - and the barrier gestures such as wearing a mask and using hand gels.
Or are we all to put ourselves first because it's easier or more convenient not to think of the consequences for others?
That's the only conclusion I can draw from the behaviour of those who refuse to be vaccinated for non-medical reasons
Unless we're expected to stand back in awe at the fact that they're so much braver than the rest of us ...
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
The flaw in your argument above is that alcohol/smoking/type 2 diabetes/drug users are not wandering about infecting vulnerable folk (some of whom may not be able to have the jab for sound medical reasons).
Mass vaccination has always been for the benefit of society as a whole as well as for the individual ... it's not the children who have German Measles who are damaged by it, but the unborn children of pregnant women who come into contact with infected children certainly may be.
Before MMR jabs small children with a mild fever and indiscernible rash were sometimes sent by thoughtless parents to playgroup or school ... their teacher may have been pregnant ... or they may have infected another child who had a baby brother or sister on the way ... those babies were sometimes born blind or deaf, or sometimes both ... because their mother caught Rubella from an infected child who's parent didn't understand the risk to others ... or didn't care.
@mac12 says that he does not wear a mask or take other precautions ... for all he knows he may be one of those who are (luckily for them) asymptomatic ... so he is risking wandering around spreading the virus to folk who are vulnerable. It's selfish people like that who are the reason that some folk are frightened and daren't leave their homes!
Debating is hard on a forum😀 regards smoking, we lived with passive smoking for a long time, heck even some doctors were used to advertise it! Drug users inflict lots of harm to feed their habit and stand outside any city centre pub at closing on a Saturday to see the harm alcohol causes to others. we were at 75-80% of people vaccinated so I don’t feel the majority of people are selfish but there will always be people wandering about unvaccinated especially as only over 50s are currently being vaccinated and I understand some are frightened too but how do we remove that obstacle.
... regards smoking, we lived with passive smoking for a long time, heck even some doctors were used to advertise it! Drug users inflict lots of harm to feed their habit and stand outside any city centre pub at closing on a Saturday to see the harm alcohol causes to others. ...
My response to that is that there was no real understanding of the harm that passive smoking did ... when there was, steps were taken to prevent it ... it took time but it happened.
Yes drug users cause harm to others as do those who drink too much alcohol ... but there are steps the rest of us can and do take to prevent/avoid it ... and if society was prepared to see addiction as a health condition rather than someone's fault it would be so much easier to prevent the harm to others.
The problem with Covid is that the vulnerable don't know who or where the uncaring asymptomatic infected folk are so they can do nothing to protect themselves other than stay at home and be ridiculed by the unvaccinated for being frightened.
"...we were at 75-80% of people vaccinated so I don’t feel the majority of people are selfish but there will always be people wandering about unvaccinated especially as only over 50s are currently being vaccinated and I understand some are frightened too but how do we remove that obstacle..."
As I said earlier, those who have a.less efficient immune system for whatever reason are being vaccinated as they're the ones who, if they get Covid, will be less able to fight it so will be more seriously ill. Also they will carry a much higher viral load and be more likely to spread it to others.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Folks, PLEASE do not conflate type 2 diabetes with , smoking, excess drinking and drug misuse. NOT everyone with that condition is an overweight, gluttonous couch potato.
Folks, PLEASE do not conflate type 2 diabetes with , smoking, excess drinking and drug misuse. NOT everyone with that condition is an overweight, gluttonous couch potato.
How can anyone know that ,in deciding what is best for oneself, that that person has not ( already) taken into account the needs of others too? That is not being selfish. We are all entitled to our own opinion.
Although I believe that vaccination against disease is sensible I would hate to see it made compulsory. For better or worse we live in a comparatively free country. Once compulsion is used for one thing where does it end? I never had a flu jab until I retired for example.
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Isn't that a very selfish attitude tho'? I'm all right Jack. Where would we be if everyone behaved like that?
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Or are we all to put ourselves first because it's easier or more convenient not to think of the consequences for others?
I realise everybody is different and so the immune response to the vaccine varies. I just want to know 'in average conditions' does the aftermath of having the vaccine mean the viral load in that person, if infected a few weeks after the vaccine, will be reduced because of the vaccine, making them slightly less dangerous to the average person they come into contact with?
Very sorry if this is a stupid question. I don't know enough science to be sure, hence the question. Thank you.
Unless we're expected to stand back in awe at the fact that they're so much braver than the rest of us ...
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
regards smoking, we lived with passive smoking for a long time, heck even some doctors were used to advertise it! Drug users inflict lots of harm to feed their habit and stand outside any city centre pub at closing on a Saturday to see the harm alcohol causes to others.
we were at 75-80% of people vaccinated so I don’t feel the majority of people are selfish but there will always be people wandering about unvaccinated especially as only over 50s are currently being vaccinated and I understand some are frightened too but how do we remove that obstacle.
Yes drug users cause harm to others as do those who drink too much alcohol ... but there are steps the rest of us can and do take to prevent/avoid it ... and if society was prepared to see addiction as a health condition rather than someone's fault it would be so much easier to prevent the harm to others.
The problem with Covid is that the vulnerable don't know who or where the uncaring asymptomatic infected folk are so they can do nothing to protect themselves other than stay at home and be ridiculed by the unvaccinated for being frightened.
"...we were at 75-80% of people vaccinated so I don’t feel the majority of people are selfish but there will always be people wandering about unvaccinated especially as only over 50s are currently being vaccinated and I understand some are frightened too but how do we remove that obstacle..."
As I said earlier, those who have a.less efficient immune system for whatever reason are being vaccinated as they're the ones who, if they get Covid, will be less able to fight it so will be more seriously ill. Also they will carry a much higher viral load and be more likely to spread it to others.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.