A friend of mine is a teacher and, on one occasion, had cause to phone a parent whose child was caught smoking. The mother went ballistic. “How dare you say such a thing ... my child tells me she does not smoke, are you calling her a liar ... etc. etc.” Invited in to see the very clear CCTV evidence no apology followed, just a demand to know the name of the other girl who had clearly corrupted her. Modern parents, eh?
I'm not sure it's because men saw women as delicate creatures at all. I swear at work - but I would never dream of swearing in front of my mum. I wouldn't swear in front of someone I didn't know. It's just a respect thing. Until you know someone, you assume that they may take offence - so err on the side of caution. From experience - men used to work together - so 'knew' that most men didn't give a stuff about language.
We tried to teach our kids that all words are the same - just words - BUT to some people some words cause offence, so don't use them when you don't know how they'll be received - and to all people (in the same culture) tone causes offence. My kids using 'what?' in that tone was vastly more offensive than them swearing with a smile on their face. And my wife using 'oh b*******' when playing cards with my mum was a joy.
SteveTu, I completely agree with you about being respectful in your use of language. Context is everything and the mode of speaking and writing (including text speak!) has to be adjusted according to the audience.
What I cannot agree with is that one gender should inherently be granted more respect in the mode of speech than another. That I view to be sexist.
I think that it's not gender per se - just 'experience'. The work environment up to the 50's (apart from the Wars) was predominantly male. The pubs were a male environment, sport was male - so men got 'used' to being around men. So were 'aware' of those environments. They adjusted to the environment - so were then 'respectful' in other environments. I do the same - I swear around the people I know won't take offence - so at work where everyone swears, it's no issue. But I wouldn't go into a restaurant and start. I wouldn't dream of swearing in front of people (male or female) that I didn't know or where I was unsure of the reaction. That male 'adjustment' may have then been perceived as treating women differently - but I'm not sure it is, it's just treating different environments with respect.
OH doesn't like swearing in any shape or form from anyone in any situation. I find it unimaginative use of language and unpleasant when it's used in every sentence but I have been known to swear occasionally myself when extremely provoked - usually some utter plonker on the road.
One of the strange things about spending 90% of my life outside the home in French is that I don't swear at all as I haven't come across it or learned those words. I get by just fine without it. Apparently my facial expressions and tone of voice are eloquent enough.
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
We have English friends who live in Amsterdam. When their children were younger and Dutch friends came round to play, J. Would get very upset by the children’s swearing in English, often of industrial strength. In a foreign language the swearing does not seem nearly as bad.
J. would often rhetorically ask how the Dutch parents would feel if her children ‘godverdomme’d, ‘klootzak’d and ‘pleur op’d in their front rooms. And with apologies there to Dutch speakers.
Steve, the reprimand ‘Ladies [present]!’, though virtually never heard these days, is evidence of gender stereotyping.
I once was teaching English to an extremely self-important young priest from South America. It stated to rain and he proudly announced: "It's p*ssing down." I said, "You can't say that!"😲 I explained why and he said that the gardener outside had taught him it and he wouldn't have taught him rude words. He was most insistent. I gave up. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when he took up his diplomatic posting in China😆
Isn't that a euphemism? A short cut for saying 'just be a bit more socially aware'?
B3,
Odd which words got classified as being 'naff' as well eh? Wasn't it a split between Olde Aenglish and French / Latin. The French/Latin terms are seen as ok to use in polite society, but the English frowned on. I blame William that Ba***** for it all personally.
And weren't some original 'swear' words, 'oath' words - ie they had a special significance because you used them when 'swearing' an oath or something like that.
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What I cannot agree with is that one gender should inherently be granted more respect in the mode of speech than another. That I view to be sexist.
One of the strange things about spending 90% of my life outside the home in French is that I don't swear at all as I haven't come across it or learned those words. I get by just fine without it. Apparently my facial expressions and tone of voice are eloquent enough.
J. would often rhetorically ask how the Dutch parents would feel if her children ‘godverdomme’d, ‘klootzak’d and ‘pleur op’d in their front rooms. And with apologies there to Dutch speakers.
Steve, the reprimand ‘Ladies [present]!’, though virtually never heard these days, is evidence of gender stereotyping.
I said, "You can't say that!"😲
I explained why and he said that the gardener outside had taught him it and he wouldn't have taught him rude words. He was most insistent. I gave up.
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when he took up his diplomatic posting in China😆