I have just been thrown a lifeline by a professional person who has worked longterm in surveying and mediation. I found him on a site like this. I can't say what it is in case my neighbours see it but once its done I will write up the situation.
It is clearly my land and this fact can be clearly established via the solicitors file I now have a copy of, she is not offering any explanation for her rationale or behaviour so I cannot find a compromise. Her attempt to discredit me by getting the neighbours involved when I was away, has backfired on her as they told her she was on my land and she told them she would get the fencer back to correct it and did not.
Her argument (made to others and not to us) is that she should have this land and that I wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for her. I won't boar you with the background but that's not true and if she felt it was, why did she sign the papers? The land is legally mine as signed for by all parties concerned and both she and I independently provided the measurements for the split to our solicitors.
I was paying £3000 for an all singing, all dancing fence and she agreed to the design and location (including down our mutual border) but has since renaged by putting this fence up on my land.
I have to live next door to this family and I have suggested that we both go halves on employing an independent surveyor and we must both pre-agree to abide by where he says the boundary is. This will cost about £1500 so I doubt she will agree but its a lot cheaper than the legal option. However if she doesn't have a rationale explanation for why she is on my land and isn't disputing that legally it is my land, she's not likely to want to pay the surveyor to confirm something she already knows. But I'm being reasonable and its costing me time and money which will all go against her.
As I started off by saying, I have been offered a lifeline on the way forward and intend to take it. I don't want to leave my neighbour with nowhere to go on this but that is exactly where she believes she has me. I'm staying within the law and doing this properly but I won't take the legal case route unless she gives me no other option....but as I say, I have just been thrown a lifeline and I think that is now looking less likely.
Thank you for your comments and support everyone, I'll come back and let you know the outcome but my hard learnt words of wisdom for anyone going down this route are as follows;
Never, ever rely on the friendly relationship you have with a neighbour/friend when it comes to legal transactions, get everything in writing and make like you are dealing with a stranger - it's for the benefit of you both in the long-term
Do not share a solicitor to save costs, it will come back and bite you in the bum!
Check the weather forcast for a couple of really windy days. On one of those windy nights go out and push over a couple or more of the fence, you could also do a fence post claiming it couldn't have been put in correct. Have a friend ready to put the new fence post in and then the fence. If you cement and have the fence up there's little she can do and if you keep the there boundary of both lands and she she talk you to court you should be OK. As with anything going to court you can never say which way it will go but it should be in your favor. Not the right thing to do but she isn't doing the right thing by being greedy.
Good luck with your ‘lifeline’. Although others has advocated you take it down or knock it over, this puts you in a grey area, legally-speaking and may be seen as vexatious and an escalation of a dispute by the courts, if it ever gets that far. So IMO you are doing the right thing by not doing that, at least before you have received independent legal/professional advice to the contrary. JennyJ’s point about blaming the fencer is a good one, might just give her a way out if she can find someone to blame other than her stupid self...
Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
Although others has advocated you take it down or knock it over, this puts you in a grey area, legally-speaking and may be seen as vexatious and an escalation of a dispute by the courts, if it ever gets that far.
Knocking over a fence could be classed as vandalism... Unless the reason the fence was knocked over, was to return the property of your neighbour to your neighbour from on your land. Under these circumstances, you are only preventing yourself from being prosecuted for theft, which could happen if you do not return someone else's property without due cause. It won't go to court, as the neighbour knows it is not her property she has erected the fence on, she also knows that she will have to pay the costs once the court finds her in the wrong. That in itself will ensure there is no legal action taken.
Perhaps the most stress free solution would be to put up your own straight fence just inside hers and mask it? If the land was gifted to you then losing 45 cm, and having a dog leg in it, is perhaps a small price to pay for a quiet life?
Sometimes in life it’s best to take a deep breath and move on. You know you are right, we know you are right, and if there any powers that be then they will also know you are right. But trying to budge this person might end up with sour neighbour relations for the next 20 years. Is it worth it?
Wholehearted agree with Helix why stress yourself out over such a miniscule amount. How much garden had you to start with. If you hadn't been gifted this land would it have bothered you to live with what you have?
Fingers crossed for you that your lifeline turns out to be exactly that @kjavw. While it's understandably tempting to take it down as it's on your land, you're doing the right thing, and hopefully, once a proper fence is in place, she'll realise 'her jaiket's on a shoogly peg' and b***er off. Last thing you want is an ongoing dispute escalating and making your life a misery, even though you are in the right. There are some people in this world who think they can just walk over anyone they want to, and sadly, many of them get away with it. The landlord/dodgy, non paying, tenant scenario springs to mind. Good luck and let us know what happens
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
OK so she wouldn't go halves on a surveyor and she confirmed the measurements we agreed as did the solicitor.
So I asked my fencer to put up my fence in the correct place, just on my side of the boundary. They stepped over her fence to do it without touching her fence. Her fence stayed erect and as it was installed (but clearly on my land).
So basically, my garden with her fence well into my land, then a few feet over my fence was placed an inch inside the official boundary between our gardens
My new fence was on my side of the boundary, so not a boundary fence and she had inadvertently confirmed this would be on my land by confirming the measurements with me and the solicitor prior to this. She was not happy, she rang the solicitor there and then and subsequently tried to talk my fencers into moving her fence and re-installing it for her on her side but I explained I was not paying for that. She then announced she wanted her fence back so I allowed her to take it up, we did not touch it. I decided that if she wanted to sue me she could, I was willing to take the risk but given she had rung the solicitor (and was on the phone for some time) and then asked for her fence back that look unlikely but still a risk.
Prior to this move, and in the run up to the issue we had both measured the land together and both independently of each other advised the solicitor of the agreed split so there was full recent clarity as to the measurements. I had asked for her explanation on why she had put the fence on my land and none came forth of any worth and she did not dispute the measurements. She had approached our neighbours for support and they confirmed to her verbally and to e in writing that she was on my land and she acknowledged it to them and said she would correct it, but did not. I offered mediation and she ignored it. I was prepared to take my chance in court over my new fence if she chose to go that route but I made sure she removed her fence (which was clearly on my land) and I was not instigating legal action, I was leaving that to her as I felt it would reflect badly on her and improve my chances of success if she went the legal route. Its been three months now so looks unlikely.
It was a risky move and it worked for me but I am not condoning it. It could have gone belly-up!
She wasn't happy and our relationship will never be the same but we are cordial, still taking each others bins out etc. However had I not done this, the relationship would never have been the same anyway. The neighbours on the other side are highly delighted with the new fence
Not my proudest moment but I feel it was a good outcome for me despite having to pay the fencer extra to do it. I had always got on very well with this neighbour and I have no idea to this day why she did it.
I think that's a good result for you - even though it may have made things a bit frosty. Perhaps by next year, when you're in your gardens more, she might be slightly more approachable- maybe even apologise. One can only hope! You've done everything very sensibly I think.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Fairygirl - I'm not bothered if she is frosty, all she will ever get is cordial from me. She suggested we had a coffee the other week and by way of incentive to have said coffee, told me I had just been silly over the garden (like I am child and not middle aged) and evidently expected me to apologise. She got steely politeness as I declined as I won't lower myself.
I am seriously considering she may have dementia and so remain calm and reasonable but I'm just not going there again.
Every year when it snows I clear their paths and salt them, I weed their drive, take in parcels for them and react when their alarm goes off....and I shall continue to do so as a decent neighbour, but nothing beyond that.
Posts
It is clearly my land and this fact can be clearly established via the solicitors file I now have a copy of, she is not offering any explanation for her rationale or behaviour so I cannot find a compromise. Her attempt to discredit me by getting the neighbours involved when I was away, has backfired on her as they told her she was on my land and she told them she would get the fencer back to correct it and did not.
Her argument (made to others and not to us) is that she should have this land and that I wouldn't have anything if it wasn't for her. I won't boar you with the background but that's not true and if she felt it was, why did she sign the papers? The land is legally mine as signed for by all parties concerned and both she and I independently provided the measurements for the split to our solicitors.
I was paying £3000 for an all singing, all dancing fence and she agreed to the design and location (including down our mutual border) but has since renaged by putting this fence up on my land.
I have to live next door to this family and I have suggested that we both go halves on employing an independent surveyor and we must both pre-agree to abide by where he says the boundary is. This will cost about £1500 so I doubt she will agree but its a lot cheaper than the legal option. However if she doesn't have a rationale explanation for why she is on my land and isn't disputing that legally it is my land, she's not likely to want to pay the surveyor to confirm something she already knows. But I'm being reasonable and its costing me time and money which will all go against her.
As I started off by saying, I have been offered a lifeline on the way forward and intend to take it. I don't want to leave my neighbour with nowhere to go on this but that is exactly where she believes she has me. I'm staying within the law and doing this properly but I won't take the legal case route unless she gives me no other option....but as I say, I have just been thrown a lifeline and I think that is now looking less likely.
Thank you for your comments and support everyone, I'll come back and let you know the outcome but my hard learnt words of wisdom for anyone going down this route are as follows;
Never, ever rely on the friendly relationship you have with a neighbour/friend when it comes to legal transactions, get everything in writing and make like you are dealing with a stranger - it's for the benefit of you both in the long-term
Do not share a solicitor to save costs, it will come back and bite you in the bum!
It won't go to court, as the neighbour knows it is not her property she has erected the fence on, she also knows that she will have to pay the costs once the court finds her in the wrong. That in itself will ensure there is no legal action taken.
While it's understandably tempting to take it down as it's on your land, you're doing the right thing, and hopefully, once a proper fence is in place, she'll realise 'her jaiket's on a shoogly peg' and b***er off. Last thing you want is an ongoing dispute escalating and making your life a misery, even though you are in the right.
There are some people in this world who think they can just walk over anyone they want to, and sadly, many of them get away with it. The landlord/dodgy, non paying, tenant scenario springs to mind.
Good luck and let us know what happens
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
So I asked my fencer to put up my fence in the correct place, just on my side of the boundary. They stepped over her fence to do it without touching her fence. Her fence stayed erect and as it was installed (but clearly on my land).
So basically, my garden with her fence well into my land, then a few feet over my fence was placed an inch inside the official boundary between our gardens
My new fence was on my side of the boundary, so not a boundary fence and she had inadvertently confirmed this would be on my land by confirming the measurements with me and the solicitor prior to this. She was not happy, she rang the solicitor there and then and subsequently tried to talk my fencers into moving her fence and re-installing it for her on her side but I explained I was not paying for that. She then announced she wanted her fence back so I allowed her to take it up, we did not touch it. I decided that if she wanted to sue me she could, I was willing to take the risk but given she had rung the solicitor (and was on the phone for some time) and then asked for her fence back that look unlikely but still a risk.
Prior to this move, and in the run up to the issue we had both measured the land together and both independently of each other advised the solicitor of the agreed split so there was full recent clarity as to the measurements. I had asked for her explanation on why she had put the fence on my land and none came forth of any worth and she did not dispute the measurements. She had approached our neighbours for support and they confirmed to her verbally and to e in writing that she was on my land and she acknowledged it to them and said she would correct it, but did not. I offered mediation and she ignored it. I was prepared to take my chance in court over my new fence if she chose to go that route but I made sure she removed her fence (which was clearly on my land) and I was not instigating legal action, I was leaving that to her as I felt it would reflect badly on her and improve my chances of success if she went the legal route. Its been three months now so looks unlikely.
It was a risky move and it worked for me but I am not condoning it. It could have gone belly-up!
She wasn't happy and our relationship will never be the same but we are cordial, still taking each others bins out etc. However had I not done this, the relationship would never have been the same anyway. The neighbours on the other side are highly delighted with the new fence
Not my proudest moment but I feel it was a good outcome for me despite having to pay the fencer extra to do it. I had always got on very well with this neighbour and I have no idea to this day why she did it.
Perhaps by next year, when you're in your gardens more, she might be slightly more approachable- maybe even apologise. One can only hope!
You've done everything very sensibly I think.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
I am seriously considering she may have dementia and so remain calm and reasonable but I'm just not going there again.
Every year when it snows I clear their paths and salt them, I weed their drive, take in parcels for them and react when their alarm goes off....and I shall continue to do so as a decent neighbour, but nothing beyond that.
Its a sad old world!