It's clear there are very mixed views on whether own root is better than grafted.
After reading all of your comments I think I will stick to buying grafted roses for now just so that they don't go crazy and get too big. However I do have some DA roses that I have taken cuttings from which have rooted and have grown into nice little plants with some nice thick canes and I will see how these do before I plant up the whole garden with own root roses.
@Del_Griffith … thank you...! @Rubytoo … my sympathies...some of those are nice roses.. the hybrid 'Stanwell Perpetual'.. sometimes classed as a damask perpetual, never suckered for me, a great, if thorny rose, like they all are as the name spinossisima implies.. worth getting if you see it..
I should add the Austin rose 'Sir Walter Scott', which is a Spin. hybrid.. also suckered for me repeatedly, so much so I got rid of it...
@CraighB .. it was grafted... I always plant the graft union below soil level, about 1 or 2 inches, but this encourages roses like these to develop their own roots from the base of the canes,.. so if their tendency is to sucker, this gives them a great opportunity to do so.. a way around it is to plant the graft 2 inches above soil level, this deters the rose from going own root.. the trade off with this is that this encourages the rootstock to sucker... so you have to make a decision on that..
It's worth pointing out, regarding own root roses, if anyone out there is trying to grow some, that if you have the willpower, you should remove all flower buds in the first year after planting... this will push growth and develop roots, otherwise your rose will just keep flowering and staying short and floppy.. it's worth doing, you'll be amazed at the growth that this produces.. but it's not easy when you want to see flowers on your rose..
@Marlorena the DA's that I have in containers I have planted the graft union 2 inches under the compost and it has grown lots of new shoots.
Anyway I have just been in touch with DA roses as I thought I would ask them my question and this is what they said...
When growing on their own root stock they can be prone to suckers. Also when grafting onto rootstock you are able to mass produce a variety whereas growing on own rootstock it can be difficult to produce large quantities.
I then asked if I took cuttings of my own DA roses for my own personal use (I got that bit in there lol) would that own root rose behave the same as the grafted one that I took the cutting from...
Their reply... Taking cuttings rarely works But if it does then yes the rose would be what you cut it from, not the rootstock. And it would behave exactly the same as the grafted rose.
I also asked if the rootstocks they use affect hardiness and vigouresness... And they said no the rootstock does not affect that at all.
So from this info I still can't really understand why they use different rootstocks. Each variety of their roses uses a different rootstock but if the rootstock doesn't have any effect on the rose grafted onto it... Why use different ones?
I also don't get why they said taking rose cuttings rarely work?
I think you have misunderstood a bit... let me explain simply... all roses sold in this country, including all those by Austin, as bare root roses like the ones you've just received, or as container roses, are grafted onto the same dog rose rootstock, which is known in the trade as 'Laxa'... the only roses you buy that won't be grafted will be those small supermarket ones in tiny pots that are usually just rooted cuttings, sometimes 3 to a pot.... and small roses from some other vendors, or those you buy in florists..
...the grafted 'laxa' rootstock is what all of us have in our gardens wherever roses are grown today... the variety you have bought is grafted onto it... these 'laxa' rootstocks are all grown from seed... years ago they used Rosa canina, the native dog rose, more than they do today... it suckered too much..
Own root roses are just that, they have their own roots, so no rootstock... so it's not the case that there are a variety of rootstocks being used, just the one 'Laxa'.. they used to use one or two others, but to my knowledge that is no longer, or very rarely the case...
In other countries they use different roses for their rootstock.. in America for instance they have 3 main ones... 'Dr. Huey'.. 'Rosa Fortuniana'.. or 'Rosa Multiflora'.. depending on local conditions... in continental Europe they use rootstocks such as 'Schmidt's Ideal' which is another dog rose type... it's very hardy and popular in places like Russia for their extreme climate... we use 'Laxa', which is a rose that originated in the Turkestan area and has proved adaptable to our British soils..
David Austin wants to sell his roses... they don't particularly want to encourage you to grow own root roses from their own roses, even for personal use... they're in the business of selling... you must treat their advice with caution in this regard.. it costs them a £1 million annual investment to produce 3 roses for Chelsea Flower Show each year... they want that money back with profit... so keep buying... that's the message..
Very clear post @Marlorena and thanks for asking the question @CraighB. I’ve always wondered about this. Just for info, I shoved in a couple of autumn pruned DA rose stems last year in the soil and every one of them rooted. Didnt do a thing apart from shoving it in the soil. Come spring, I was left with 3 Harlow Carr and 2 ancient mariner. So disagree DA’s view that they don’t root.
Posts
After reading all of your comments I think I will stick to buying grafted roses for now just so that they don't go crazy and get too big. However I do have some DA roses that I have taken cuttings from which have rooted and have grown into nice little plants with some nice thick canes and I will see how these do before I plant up the whole garden with own root roses.
@Rubytoo … my sympathies...some of those are nice roses.. the hybrid 'Stanwell Perpetual'.. sometimes classed as a damask perpetual, never suckered for me, a great, if thorny rose, like they all are as the name spinossisima implies.. worth getting if you see it..
I should add the Austin rose 'Sir Walter Scott', which is a Spin. hybrid.. also suckered for me repeatedly, so much so I got rid of it...
...and it's even better to have a plant A and a plant B
It's worth pointing out, regarding own root roses, if anyone out there is trying to grow some, that if you have the willpower, you should remove all flower buds in the first year after planting... this will push growth and develop roots, otherwise your rose will just keep flowering and staying short and floppy.. it's worth doing, you'll be amazed at the growth that this produces.. but it's not easy when you want to see flowers on your rose..
Anyway I have just been in touch with DA roses as I thought I would ask them my question and this is what they said...
When growing on their own root stock they can be prone to suckers. Also when grafting onto rootstock you are able to mass produce a variety whereas growing on own rootstock it can be difficult to produce large quantities.
I then asked if I took cuttings of my own DA roses for my own personal use (I got that bit in there lol) would that own root rose behave the same as the grafted one that I took the cutting from...
Their reply... Taking cuttings rarely works But if it does then yes the rose would be what you cut it from, not the rootstock. And it would behave exactly the same as the grafted rose.
I also asked if the rootstocks they use affect hardiness and vigouresness... And they said no the rootstock does not affect that at all.
So from this info I still can't really understand why they use different rootstocks. Each variety of their roses uses a different rootstock but if the rootstock doesn't have any effect on the rose grafted onto it... Why use different ones?
I also don't get why they said taking rose cuttings rarely work?
I think you have misunderstood a bit... let me explain simply... all roses sold in this country, including all those by Austin, as bare root roses like the ones you've just received, or as container roses, are grafted onto the same dog rose rootstock, which is known in the trade as 'Laxa'... the only roses you buy that won't be grafted will be those small supermarket ones in tiny pots that are usually just rooted cuttings, sometimes 3 to a pot.... and small roses from some other vendors, or those you buy in florists..
...the grafted 'laxa' rootstock is what all of us have in our gardens wherever roses are grown today... the variety you have bought is grafted onto it... these 'laxa' rootstocks are all grown from seed... years ago they used Rosa canina, the native dog rose, more than they do today... it suckered too much..
Own root roses are just that, they have their own roots, so no rootstock... so it's not the case that there are a variety of rootstocks being used, just the one 'Laxa'.. they used to use one or two others, but to my knowledge that is no longer, or very rarely the case...
In other countries they use different roses for their rootstock.. in America for instance they have 3 main ones... 'Dr. Huey'.. 'Rosa Fortuniana'.. or 'Rosa Multiflora'.. depending on local conditions... in continental Europe they use rootstocks such as 'Schmidt's Ideal' which is another dog rose type... it's very hardy and popular in places like Russia for their extreme climate... we use 'Laxa', which is a rose that originated in the Turkestan area and has proved adaptable to our British soils..
David Austin wants to sell his roses... they don't particularly want to encourage you to grow own root roses from their own roses, even for personal use... they're in the business of selling... you must treat their advice with caution in this regard.. it costs them a £1 million annual investment to produce 3 roses for Chelsea Flower Show each year... they want that money back with profit... so keep buying... that's the message..