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Any point in netting now?

Stephanie newish gardenerStephanie newish gardener Posts: 516
in Problem solving
My broccoli and cavolo Nero had been doing so well, much better than last year, I was so pleased, but then came the caterpillars because I didn't use any netting.  Apart from being the first and last time I do that, i now have some related questions 
1 Is there any point in netting now?  I've read a bit about the butterfly lifecycle and hope that in Scotland they won't now be laying more eggs anyway....or might I just be trapping caterpillars in and making it harder for me to find them?
2 Some of the cavolo Nero has been totally stripped so the leaves are just stalks - will new leaves even grow now or should I just pull up the plants?
  My before and after pics....without showing the worst ones as I'm sure some of you might be squeamish for a fellow gardener's plight!




No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.  B) 

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  • BobTheGardenerBobTheGardener Posts: 11,384
    edited August 2018
    I've never grown cavolo but it might still produce new leaves so would leave it.  Some of the broccoli sideshoots have been allowed to bolt (flower) so that plant is probably now finished.  You could try cutting all of the bolted shoots off though and it might produce more, so worth a try.  As for netting, yes if you have woodpigeons around as they will munch them.
    PS: those onions are ready for lifting - loosen the soil beneath each one with a hand fork and lift complete with roots.  Brush-off any soil and leave them somewhere dry until the leaves have all dried-off then they are ready for storing. :)  They are prone to rot if left in the soil.
    A trowel in the hand is worth a thousand lost under a bush.
  • raisingirlraisingirl Posts: 7,093
    I would sit yourself down by the plants and go over every leaf looking for caterpillars and for eggs. Pick off all the caterpillars, rub off all the eggs. Then do it again every day for a few days. I would net them, if you can. If we get a fine spell of weather you may still get caterpillars, even if it's late for them to make it to butterfly-hood, they'll still eat your plants in the attempt. I don't usually take the nets off mine until the weather really deteriorates at the end of September or early October.
    The cavolo nero will recover, even if it's down to stumps, as long as the root was reasonably well established before they were attacked - it's a classic cut-and-come-again cropper and will produce new leaf. The brocolli will depend on the variety. I grow a 'quick heading' type which throws lots of side shoots like purple sprouting (only green) when the main central head is removed. I would guess most types will do something similar.
    All the brassicas regrow in some form when cut - you can cut the head off a cabbage entirely and if you leave the stump, it'll grow new leaves, just not a hearted cabbage. Still edible though, so try it and see.
    Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon

    “It's still magic even if you know how it's done.” 
  • Stephanie newish gardenerStephanie newish gardener Posts: 516
    Thanks Bob. The pics were taken a couple of weeks ago and the flowering heads have been removed and the onions are being stored as below, in fact I was going to ask if it is a good place to keep them for now. It's a well ventilated greenhouse that doesn't get loads of sun...  :)


    No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.  B) 

  • Stephanie newish gardenerStephanie newish gardener Posts: 516
    And happily, after the shape of the first onion in this thread https://forum.gardenersworld.com/discussion/1014973/onion-about-to-flower/p1 you can see that they all ended up more round than I had anticipated! :)
    No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.  B) 

  • Stephanie newish gardenerStephanie newish gardener Posts: 516
    raisingirl said:
    I would sit yourself down by the plants and go over every leaf looking for caterpillars and for eggs. Pick off all the caterpillars, rub off all the eggs. Then do it again every day for a few days. I would net them, if you can. If we get a fine spell of weather you may still get caterpillars, even if it's late for them to make it to butterfly-hood, they'll still eat your plants in the attempt. I don't usually take the nets off mine until the weather really deteriorates at the end of September or early October.
    The cavolo nero will recover, even if it's down to stumps, as long as the root was reasonably well established before they were attacked - it's a classic cut-and-come-again cropper and will produce new leaf. The brocolli will depend on the variety. I grow a 'quick heading' type which throws lots of side shoots like purple sprouting (only green) when the main central head is removed. I would guess most types will do something similar.
    All the brassicas regrow in some form when cut - you can cut the head off a cabbage entirely and if you leave the stump, it'll grow new leaves, just not a hearted cabbage. Still edible though, so try it and see.
    Thanks Raisingirl.  I have done some caterpillar plucking and got rid of lots of them, and am trying to keep that up.  They first appeared when I was away and my poor neighbour spent ages picking 'hundreds' of caterpillars off the plants as she didn't want me to return to decimated brassicas.  Since then I've tried my best but cavolo nero certainly isn't the easiest leaf to check over - crinkly as a crinkly thing!
    I have plants in 3 different beds in the garden and all have succumbed, but I can net one of the beds quite easily as there is a netting cage next to it so will give it a go on one bed at least.
    I hoped the cavolo nero would be tough as it is a winter veg too so I was going to persevere and hope for the best.  Definitely not going without netting again though!!

    No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.  B) 

  • raisingirlraisingirl Posts: 7,093
    I left a purple sprouting plant un-netted a couple of years ago. It was fine until late July and I thought I was going to get away with it. It got turned to bare sticks within a week. One advantage is that it's not hard to find the caterpillars when there isn't a single leaf left. I had a really good crop from it the following spring - a little later than I would otherwise, perhaps, but no reduction in quantity really. 
    Of course the fact that PSB crops many months after the caterpillar season ends is a help. But brassicas are pretty resilient, on the whole, once they are established
    Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon

    “It's still magic even if you know how it's done.” 
  • ZeroZero1ZeroZero1 Posts: 577
    edited August 2018
    My sympathies, I netted mine thoroughly this year but the caterpillars still got in somehow. My cabbage hearts are also eaten  demolished by slugs which crawl up and into the hearts, chomping leaves on the way. I took one heart and washed it under the tap. I still found two more slugs when I cut it for the meal. 
    I think I might quit trying with brassicas. Last year I grew cauliflower only to have something eat all the heads.  :s
  • Stephanie newish gardenerStephanie newish gardener Posts: 516
    raisingirl said:
    I left a purple sprouting plant un-netted a couple of years ago. It was fine until late July and I thought I was going to get away with it. It got turned to bare sticks within a week. One advantage is that it's not hard to find the caterpillars when there isn't a single leaf left. I had a really good crop from it the following spring - a little later than I would otherwise, perhaps, but no reduction in quantity really. 
    Of course the fact that PSB crops many months after the caterpillar season ends is a help. But brassicas are pretty resilient, on the whole, once they are established
    My 'broccoli' is actually calabrese but it has continued to produce additional heads after I have taken off the main head, in fact I was out in the rain earlier, picking off caterpillars and then harvesting the few little heads that have appeared.  They are really only individual florets but at least we will get to eat them and not the caterpillars!

    To be honest, my three best calabrese were actually started last year, they got left in little pots due to lack of time and space, and were then planted out this spring.  They grew amazingly well, much better than the plants that were in the ground last year.  It was such a success that I'm thinking of sowing some seeds shortly to over-winter in the greenhouse, but next year they will be planted under netting!

    I grew calabrese and curly kale under scaffold netting last year and didn't suffer with caterpillars at all, but the plants didn't grow huge and weren't overly productive.  This year's monster plants, including a couple that were actually started this year, were in a different and sunnier part of the garden. I think that the netting might have just made sufficient difference last year that the plants had a bit less light than they really needed.  I have room to rotate the crops in the sunnier bed so that I can still grow spuds and calabrese and kale, I just need to work out the best way to build a net cage.  Will be speaking to my lovely husband......
    No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.  B) 

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  • raisingirlraisingirl Posts: 7,093
    edited August 2018
    Stephanie newish gardener said:
     I just need to work out the best way to build a net cage.  Will be speaking to my lovely husband......
    I bought a selection of poles, connectors and anchors from a company called 'gardening naturally' as well as a couple of different types of net. I can build frames that are around 1m tall and of whatever plan dimensions to suit. The frame bits are all aluminium so reusable for years (6 or 7 so far) and occasionally I buy a few extra connectors or a new piece of net if the storms rip it too much to sew it back together (with string and a darning needle). I can put them up and take them down on my own without recourse to the Responsible Adult.

    Marvellous cabbage, scroggin  :)
    Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon

    “It's still magic even if you know how it's done.” 
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