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Fallen retaining wall

ailsadalmeidaailsadalmeida Posts: 15
in The potting shed
We have a retaining wall (our responsibility), that has stood for some 100 years and during the night last night we woke to a loud crash sound that turn out to be our wall collapsing into our neighbours, lower garden.  There is no sign of heave or subsidence and so insurance are saying no payout.  I am seeking advice on process to follow, do i get a surveyor in to provide a POV?  We had a homebuyers survey done in Feb 2017 and no frost, cracks, or huge concern detailed although noted it was leaning somewhat although i've subsequently read that's not uncommon.  There clearly was a big ivy root going through the wall and a heavy weight of ivy on top coming from the neighbours side.  I cleared all the ivy my side last summer.  What i would like to know is has anyone had similar situation, what did you do?  The neighbour is already talking about everything he wants us to do in terms of re-landscaping his garden but i am not sure it's so clear cut as being on us to do so if the ivy on his side was at fault?  He's also pressuring us to act quickly to repair but of course the cost is going to be huge not to mention we will need to arrange builders, skips etc.  Any advice on this matter gratefully received.
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  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    Typical insurance company. No sign of a problem... except the collapsed wall. I think you have no choice but to get your own surveyor to tell them what's happened and why they will be paying out. You'll need an engineer to design and calculate the replacement wall anyway.

    I'd query though if it's your wall and your responsibility why is the neighbour allowed to grown ivy on there that could cause structural damage?

    Cost wise you could look at gabion baskets for the wall as at least you can fill them with the rubble that collapsed out of the wall in the first place.
    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • ailsadalmeidaailsadalmeida Posts: 15
    Thanks for your reply.  Subsequent checking of our title deeds shows no clear ownership of boundaries so now at least we can have a conversation about that.  We cleared the ivy on our side of the wall over a year ago.  Thanks for your advice we have asked for a surveyor to come over.  I wonder has anyone every successfully had ivy cited as a reason for wall collapse and had success with insurance?
  • The Bald GardenerThe Bald Gardener Posts: 212
    If the ivy is to blame and it is on the neighbours property would that not make it the responsibility of the neighbours insurance?  
  • ailsadalmeidaailsadalmeida Posts: 15
    I don't have evidence it was the ivy so need the surveyor to see it but not sure how they will judge that since the wall is now smashed down as it was a danger in neighbours property
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  • raisingirlraisingirl Posts: 7,093
    edited June 2018
    What's the weather been like this year in your area?

    It's far more likely that the wall had some more fundamental problem going on than that the ivy collapsed it. In summer, in dry weather, the most likely cause of an abrupt failure would be a large tree somewhere nearby taking water out of the ground causing the ground under the wall to drop, or a drain collapsing. It depends what the terms of your insurance are as to which of these would or wouldn't be covered.

    Water pressure and frost heave are all issues but you'd expect the failure to happen during a thaw or heavy rainfall in that case - had you had a thunderstorm in the few days before it came down?

    Ivy can exploit cracks in walls but is generally not thought to cause them. That would suggest the wall was already failing for some reason - the ivy may have expedited the failure but won't have caused it. Compared to the weight of soil and water behind it, I would expect the weight of ivy to be negligible. It has wind resistance so can bring a fence down, but not the weight to demolish a sound retaining wall.

    So I would surmise there was another problem that the ivy may have been concealing.

    See what your your surveyor says. 
    Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon

    “It's still magic even if you know how it's done.” 
  • ailsadalmeidaailsadalmeida Posts: 15
    I don't have evidence it was the ivy so need the surveyor to see it but not sure how they will judge that since the wall is now smashed down as it was a danger in neighbours property. We found our deeds of conveyance from 1939 and they state we are responsible for the wall on north side (other side to which wall has fallen). I’m seeing conflicting views on being the higher land and being assumed responsible. I’m not sure I can find out if his deeds say he is. So far we’ve cleared the wall up though and he’s hassled us a lot about returning his landscaping like for like! His property is older than ours and I have found a document that details about his house being an old pub and the old boundary wall being adjacent to his drive and our house was not built till some 30 years later so hopefully it may be his responsibility.  Any similar experiences gratefully received.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    That sounds a nightmare, poor you, but please don’t let your neighbour bully you into doing anything until you establish responsibility. If your deeds say you are responsible for the north side, then logically he must be responsible for the south side so the responsibility is likely to be shared at the very least. He might be trying it on, railroading you into doing the work even though he knows it’s his part/full responsibility, hoping you don’t cotton on!
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Can you take a few pix? It would help to give us all an idea of what it looks like and may help with further advice   :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • ailsadalmeidaailsadalmeida Posts: 15
    Found out that his house is old pub that dates to 1900 before mine was built if that helps and was the wall that belonged to the old hospital behind them 
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