Help for a noob
fishtycuffs
Posts: 11
Hi everyone!!!
I am Paul, from St Helens. As the title suggests, I am somewhat of a noob when it comes to gardening, in particular finding the right plant/shrub or tree has me tossing and turning at nights with an over active mind. I don't know nearly enough to make a confident decision moving forward with my little green fingers, hence why I have joined this forum hoping to pick the brains of people who know a whole lot more than me. Hopefully you wont mind sharing a little experience and steer me in the right direction.
I re landscaped my garden a few years ago, creating a tiered planting area.
The tiered planting area is a pretty hefty build as I don't do building by half, generally overdoing it but at least I know it will last. The upper tier is held back by concrete block with iron re bar faced of with another layer of red brick. The lower tiers are build out of red brick (double with a cavity) that act as planters. The downside to the structure is that water retention is quite high. I have thought about drilling drainage holes but that will ultimately damage and clog the grassed area below. The soil is usually damp, but not completely wet as I did put a layer of lime stone at the bottom of the planters to help with drainage, just probably not enough but its a bit late now.
On the right side (behind my shed) I have laurels to provide privacy, interest and the benefit of low nesting birds. The laurels have been in for about 3 years, bought from a nursery that was looking to get rid of some stragglers they had in the back of their compound. They were certainly destined for the fire heap, however 3 years on they are about 5-6ft tall and very dense. They cover an area of about 9ft x 4ft. In front of them in the lower tier I have a flamingo willow, also planted around the same time and has had to be cut back a couple of times.
Now, off to the left side, On the top tier I have a snow queen multi stem birch (that I adore) 3 years old and she is growing on beautifully. She was a 5ft twig when planted, now over 12ft and is just about displaying her lovely white bark across all 3 main stems.
To the left of the birch (about 3m away) I planted 4 rhodies hoping that by now they would be the height of the fence, nice and dense with lots of flowers.... not even close. Instead I've got a 2ft spindly sad looking mess.
On the mid tier adjacent to the the willow, I have a canarian palm which although alive, barely. The soil is just too wet for it so it's going to be replaced with lavender I think. Plus I love the wildlife coming into the garden, lavender will certainly bring the bees in.
So, as it stands and several years on, I have acidic soil, ph of 5.5 to 6.5 depending on where and how deep I probe. Its only a cheep probe that does misture and ph, probably not accurate but so long as I have a general idea I know which direction to go in. On the moisture scale 1-10, I get moisture readings of around 7-8 (we have had a bit of rain over the past few days).
My garden is SSW facing so my planting area is against the north side of the fence. The area is in shade until about 1-2pm then has full sun until about 8-9pm in the summer. At the moment it is around 3pm but as the sun gets higher it does get better.
What I would like some help with is deciding on a shrub that can go in place of the rhodies that will thrive in the conditions mentioned. I don't want it to over power the birch but do want to fill the corner up as the view of the fence is so boring. Ideally a dense evergreen flowering shrub, growing to around 8-10ft if taller then able to take a cut back. I realize that I have quite a specific requirement and may not be able to gain the ideal shrub, but I would like to get as close as possible if at all possible. Something has to give, I know, but I just don't
Posts
Hi Fishtycuffs!
Any chance of a photo? It would help us understand the situation a bit better...
Initial thoughts are that you may have problems with lavender, if your soil is very wet. They also prefer full sun. I'm puzzled about your rhodies though, unless they got waterlogged. A photo might help!
Hi,
Thank you so much for your reply, photo's can be viewed here....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141353153@N05/
The Rhodies definitely aren't water logged, but admittedly very moist ???
Just to clarify, the sun does hit the area at around 2pm (ground level) at the moment, much earlier in the summer and then has the sun right through until dusk. I am hoping that this will be enough not to completely limit me in choices.
My main goal for this area is for good coverage of the boring fence, secondly to attract wildlife. So low level stuff will suffer the shade more than something taller. If said plant / shrub grows to or near the height of the fence, the canopy will have sun all day long as we are not overlooked from the back.
I'm bamboozled with what to go forward with, one of my thoughts was to go for a weeping larch. They seem to fit the bill but I'm reluctant to go with anything without seeking some advice.
Thanks again :-)
Last edited: 02 April 2017 10:49:14
Fishtycuffs, Rhododendrons are slow growing my own is thirty years old and has just reached the top of a five foot fence and is flowering now the best it has ever done. They also need an acidic soil and shade form direct sunlight, I never prune them. They get a spread of mulch once a year after flowering making sure the area is slightly acidic.
Soil testers cheap or expensive tell you what the soil is like where you do the test, it can vary depending on what you plant and how, plus how you feed or mulch. Take a small container, take a little soil from along the bed and mix it then do the PH test you will get a general idea but do not expect total accuracy.
You have two choices with the beds drill the base push in a tube with holes drilled in it all round and be prepared to plunge it out now and then with a rod. Secondly dig out part of the bed, mix with sand and grit then replace this will give a drier top level more so if you drill the wall which once drained will then not hold as much water.
As to plants, fast growing plants are that, fast, they need to be pruned often, not my cup of tea, I like the slow growers. There are dozens of plants for shade, my choice would probably not be yours, I suggest you get some good gardening books, Charity shops often have plenty unused in some cases, they will all give differing information on plants but we are gardeners we try everything then make our choice or mistakes and yes we all make those. Good Luck
Frank.
Hi Frank,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had no idea that rhodies where such slow growers, I always imagined that they would be a vigorous shrub. Waiting 30 years for 5ft is a little beyond my patience level, so ultimately the rhodies will be removed. Thank you for the suggestion on improving the top layer of soil, I'll dig it in nice and deep once the rhodies are out and hopefully get better results with what I decide to go for.
I am still open to suggestions on any 'fast growing' shrub as I don't mind cutting them back each year as it will help thicken them up anyway. This is what I have done with my laurels and they are very dense but don't offer much interest other than thick cover behind my shed (which was my intention).
I have researched all kinds and it is an absolute mine field and I understand that what works for one won't necessarily work for another. I ike the idea of a weeping Lurch, they look nice, I am holding out for an evergreen I just can't seem to find a suitable candidate.
Thanks again,
Paul
Hi Fishtycuffs,
Thanks for the photos - I've just got in, having been out all day, so hopefully can give this a bit of thought now. Firstly, congratulations on your walls and fences, which look good and solid, and on the gorgeous birch.
I had two thoughts. There doesn't seem to be a lot wrong with your rhodies; perhaps a little pale - might benefit from an "acid plant" feed. As Frank says, rhododendrons are slow growing, but worth it in the end... you could move them forward in the bed, and have something taller behind, perhaps? Now would be a good time, while the soil is moist. Did the plants come with labels giving their names, or ultimate heights? Some cultivars grow taller than others. One I grow has a maximum height of 4 feet; another 2 feet. But others, bred from the common purple rhododendron, are a lot taller and faster growing. 6 feet in 10 years is mentioned on the internet for the vigorous sorts, which might be doable in your situation, perhaps. If you google "fast growing rhododendrons" you'll find some lists.
The second thought was whether you could put up some trellis or wires on the fence, and grow an evergreen climber or two up it. Or a wall shrub. Pyracantha can be trained on wires, is evergreen, with white flowers and yellow or orange berries. There's an evergreen honeysuckle too.
Meant to say - make sure your rhodies are not planted deeper than they were in the pot. They hate being buried too deep.
Thank you Liriodenron,
It appears that I have a mixture. When I bought the rhodies, it was with a blindfold on. They were on offer in Tesco and I just went for a variety of colours.
I have 2 x Nova Zembia (red flowers), 2 x Catewbiense Grandiforum (pink flowers).
On the cards it says Nova is 2m hight and the Catewb is 1-2m heght.
I would love to see these plants thrive, I was hoping for a bit more f a turn around when I bought them but I guess I'm not at the mercy of my own ignorance.
Maybe, I should look at giving the rhodies a helping hand to see if they imrove. I admit it was a case of plant and forget. I may have just plonked them in the ground without giving the planting height any thought (most likely). After 3 years of being in, is it best to cut my losses or do you think this is recoverable? I could lift them but fear lots of root damage, also improving the soil may cause some damage.
Wow, I really am between the devil and the deep blue see now, haha.
Thanks so much
Hi Paul - I'm a St.Helens lad, just up the road in Prescot now!
Have you considered a climbing Hydrangea? They take a year or so to get comfortable but will then climb your fence pretty quickly and are easy to prune or train if they're heading in the wrong direction. They also won't mind being stuck in the shade for a few hours a day. Not evergreen though so maybe not but it's a spectacular looking thing in autumn when the leaves turn a fiery orange before dropping.
And if drainage is a problem then a few moisture loving hostas dotted around will help suck up the excess. Another plant that doesn't need lots of sunlight to do well.