All the comments here show just how challenging gardening can be! The more you know about your soil, the better will be your results. It sounds like your plot has a lot going for it and if you fancy no dig, go for it. It also sounds as if your soil is already quite productive: as Leif2 says, some clay has lots of nutrients and supports plants very well while some is very low in fertility. My clay soil has lumps of chalk and I found my plants looked hungry and miserable until I changed the pH. a bit. Good luck.
Thanks for this - I think you have probably hit the nail on the head. I was thinking a bit more about this and I realised I had waterlogging in mind in relation to the bed because when it rains hard, the slabbed path immediately in front of this bed has standing water on it and the lawn immediately in front of that gets quite sodden. We have a raised patio semi-adjacent to this bed, and the borders around that, which aren't raised, also get very wet when it rains a lot. It's a wonder that the primroses haven't drowned at times as there is sometimes an inch or so of water sitting on the surface.
I now think the walled bed was probably built some time ago (husband thinks the materials used suggest 30-40 years) to overcome this very issue. We bought the house 16 years ago and there was nothing much in the bed apart from a self-seeded pampas grass, loads of chives and weeds. We managed to dig out the pampas grass 5 or 6 years ago and every year we get loads of little babies popping up, so clearly those seeds don't mind the damp! We dug out a load of the chives too as there were (still are) more than we can use and they've spread to the outside of the wall and seem to be happy in the soggy conditions - bizarre since I thought they much preferred dry sandy soil.
Work took us away in 2004 until a couple of years ago so I have been trying to regain the upper hand in the garden generally and am now starting to cultivate some fruit and veg. The location of this bed is ideal for stuff you pick in small amounts as you need it, with a bed with totally different characteristics at the far side of the garden being for the slower-growing cut-once veg.
Armed with the new perspective of the water table I might have to think carefully about what will grow best in this position. I didn't plant much in it last year as it was really our first home-growing attempts and I work full time (very glad of the long daylight hours up here in summer!) so didn't want to over-reach myself. I love being out in the garden but sometimes it seems to take up every waking moment, especially as we've had a lot of work on re-taming old shrubs, bonkers rambly roses, out of shape heathers and trying to identify lots of plants so we know what to do with them.
So, back on topic, the kale did really well in the bed so I will grow more of that. The shallots were mixed but I don't know if that's the soil or my inattentiveness. The asparagus peas did best of all but we've decided they're not to be a staple veg, though I might put some in a flower bed as they are very pretty. The dwarf french beans were also a bit hit and miss, though I blame the abundance of slugs for that - and they are of course happy in a bit of damp.
I've got aspirations of cauliflowers, carrots, more french beans (don't like runners), onions (have got seeds, not sets), hard neck garlic, potatoes, cavolo nero and broccoli. Tomatoes will be in my little greenhouse and I will have another go at haricot beans, which didn't do that well last year, probably because I was a bit late with them for the Scottish summer (what summer?)
We had planned to put the potatoes in boxes yet to be built, but the rest doesn't have a designated home yet, so if any of the above is likely to thrive more in the damp I should probably put it in this spot.
Apologies that this has turned into a novel (and I've got other floral/shrubby questions for elsewhere on the forum!) but apart from being useful, I generally find this a friendly place to babble on )
Thanks again for all suggestions
Stephanie
No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.
If water logging is an issue, you could install drains as said, or rotovate in horticultural sand (crushed rock) or install raised beds. I spread one inch of horticultural sand on my lawn, after killing it, then rotavated it in, and resowed grass. There is no longer standing water, but you do need lots of sand. Raised beds are a traditional solution to waterlogging. But it could be pricey depending on the area.
Dowding does not grow in pure compost, he spreads a layer on, about 3 inches I think, early in the year. You can get manure cheap or even for free from stables, but you need transportation and a storage area while it breaks down. Be careful as some contains aminopyralids which will damage many veggies. I buy rotted organic stable manure, my veggies still work out good value, albeit more costly than otherwise. About £3 per square metre seems good value to me. Then again I grow to get fresh high quality veggies, not to save money.
Here's a couple of pics I took the other day after a day of really heavy rain. It shows how the water sits on the path - and it had subsided a bit by the time I took the pic - plus how it sits in the border round the patio.
Not sure how the poor hellebore survives but it does, and hopefully will do so much better now that I have rescued it by digging out most of a very rampant mint plant that had gradually been strangling it!
Happy days
No longer newish but can't think of a new name so will remain forever newish.
My soil is clay with lots of stones. Its not real pot clay - I've had that before - more clay to loam and very acidic. The whole garden slopes to north but we had to excavate soil from around the walls of the barn that is now our house, so we piled it up and then formed a reasonably level platfore to give me a flattish open space. The soil, having been excavated, is basically sub soil so very poor and with big blobs of blue clay here and there. I've had a few abortive attempts at making raised beds but without the funds to get in a lot of topsoil, it's been rather nominal raising - just an inch or so above 'natural' ground. However the repeated cultivation has greatly improved the soil structure and it is now noticeable that the ground within the 'beds' drains much more quickly than the surrounding areas.
To answer your question then: last year I decided to abandon one of my 4 'rotation' beds and make a perennial veg bed instead. To do this in March I bought 7 big (120l) bags of Multi-purpose compost, hoiked them up to the garden and spread them in a layer about 4 inches thick over the former veg bed (uncompacted) and the path beside it (very compacted). I pulled out as many of the nettles and docks as I could then planted chard, raspberries, rhubarb, a small tree (apricot), some strawberries, sorrel, and courgettes, alongside perennial kale, leeks and some topsetting onions and herbs.
It was the most productive veg bed I've had in all the 7 years I've been here
so I would say yes, you can. In your case, a bit of careful drainage along the edges might be sensible. You may always have trouble with asparagus - it hates the wet.
PS I've just spent an hour or two pulling out the annuals (chard mostly) and doing some weeding in that bed, The soil is lovely and the compost and 'native' soil are well mixed where the plants have been, less so under the rhubarb where I didn't plant through it. I plan to convert another bed this year the same way
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Posts
All the comments here show just how challenging gardening can be! The more you know about your soil, the better will be your results. It sounds like your plot has a lot going for it and if you fancy no dig, go for it. It also sounds as if your soil is already quite productive: as Leif2 says, some clay has lots of nutrients and supports plants very well while some is very low in fertility. My clay soil has lumps of chalk and I found my plants looked hungry and miserable until I changed the pH. a bit. Good luck.
Iain
Thanks for this - I think you have probably hit the nail on the head. I was thinking a bit more about this and I realised I had waterlogging in mind in relation to the bed because when it rains hard, the slabbed path immediately in front of this bed has standing water on it and the lawn immediately in front of that gets quite sodden. We have a raised patio semi-adjacent to this bed, and the borders around that, which aren't raised, also get very wet when it rains a lot. It's a wonder that the primroses haven't drowned at times as there is sometimes an inch or so of water sitting on the surface.
I now think the walled bed was probably built some time ago (husband thinks the materials used suggest 30-40 years) to overcome this very issue. We bought the house 16 years ago and there was nothing much in the bed apart from a self-seeded pampas grass, loads of chives and weeds. We managed to dig out the pampas grass 5 or 6 years ago and every year we get loads of little babies popping up, so clearly those seeds don't mind the damp! We dug out a load of the chives too as there were (still are) more than we can use and they've spread to the outside of the wall and seem to be happy in the soggy conditions - bizarre since I thought they much preferred dry sandy soil.
Work took us away in 2004 until a couple of years ago so I have been trying to regain the upper hand in the garden generally and am now starting to cultivate some fruit and veg. The location of this bed is ideal for stuff you pick in small amounts as you need it, with a bed with totally different characteristics at the far side of the garden being for the slower-growing cut-once veg.
Armed with the new perspective of the water table I might have to think carefully about what will grow best in this position. I didn't plant much in it last year as it was really our first home-growing attempts and I work full time (very glad of the long daylight hours up here in summer!) so didn't want to over-reach myself. I love being out in the garden but sometimes it seems to take up every waking moment, especially as we've had a lot of work on re-taming old shrubs, bonkers rambly roses, out of shape heathers and trying to identify lots of plants so we know what to do with them.
So, back on topic, the kale did really well in the bed so I will grow more of that. The shallots were mixed but I don't know if that's the soil or my inattentiveness. The asparagus peas did best of all but we've decided they're not to be a staple veg, though I might put some in a flower bed as they are very pretty. The dwarf french beans were also a bit hit and miss, though I blame the abundance of slugs for that - and they are of course happy in a bit of damp.
I've got aspirations of cauliflowers, carrots, more french beans (don't like runners), onions (have got seeds, not sets), hard neck garlic, potatoes, cavolo nero and broccoli. Tomatoes will be in my little greenhouse and I will have another go at haricot beans, which didn't do that well last year, probably because I was a bit late with them for the Scottish summer (what summer?)
We had planned to put the potatoes in boxes yet to be built, but the rest doesn't have a designated home yet, so if any of the above is likely to thrive more in the damp I should probably put it in this spot.
Apologies that this has turned into a novel (and I've got other floral/shrubby questions for elsewhere on the forum!) but apart from being useful, I generally find this a friendly place to babble on
)
Thanks again for all suggestions
Stephanie
If water logging is an issue, you could install drains as said, or rotovate in horticultural sand (crushed rock) or install raised beds. I spread one inch of horticultural sand on my lawn, after killing it, then rotavated it in, and resowed grass. There is no longer standing water, but you do need lots of sand. Raised beds are a traditional solution to waterlogging. But it could be pricey depending on the area.
Dowding does not grow in pure compost, he spreads a layer on, about 3 inches I think, early in the year. You can get manure cheap or even for free from stables, but you need transportation and a storage area while it breaks down. Be careful as some contains aminopyralids which will damage many veggies. I buy rotted organic stable manure, my veggies still work out good value, albeit more costly than otherwise. About £3 per square metre seems good value to me. Then again I grow to get fresh high quality veggies, not to save money.
Here's a couple of pics I took the other day after a day of really heavy rain. It shows how the water sits on the path - and it had subsided a bit by the time I took the pic - plus how it sits in the border round the patio.
Not sure how the poor hellebore survives but it does, and hopefully will do so much better now that I have rescued it by digging out most of a very rampant mint plant that had gradually been strangling it!
Happy days
My soil is clay with lots of stones. Its not real pot clay - I've had that before - more clay to loam and very acidic. The whole garden slopes to north but we had to excavate soil from around the walls of the barn that is now our house, so we piled it up and then formed a reasonably level platfore to give me a flattish open space. The soil, having been excavated, is basically sub soil so very poor and with big blobs of blue clay here and there. I've had a few abortive attempts at making raised beds but without the funds to get in a lot of topsoil, it's been rather nominal raising - just an inch or so above 'natural' ground. However the repeated cultivation has greatly improved the soil structure and it is now noticeable that the ground within the 'beds' drains much more quickly than the surrounding areas.
To answer your question then: last year I decided to abandon one of my 4 'rotation' beds and make a perennial veg bed instead. To do this in March I bought 7 big (120l) bags of Multi-purpose compost, hoiked them up to the garden and spread them in a layer about 4 inches thick over the former veg bed (uncompacted) and the path beside it (very compacted). I pulled out as many of the nettles and docks as I could then planted chard, raspberries, rhubarb, a small tree (apricot), some strawberries, sorrel, and courgettes, alongside perennial kale, leeks and some topsetting onions and herbs.
It was the most productive veg bed I've had in all the 7 years I've been here
so I would say yes, you can. In your case, a bit of careful drainage along the edges might be sensible. You may always have trouble with asparagus - it hates the wet.
PS I've just spent an hour or two pulling out the annuals (chard mostly) and doing some weeding in that bed, The soil is lovely and the compost and 'native' soil are well mixed where the plants have been, less so under the rhubarb where I didn't plant through it. I plan to convert another bed this year the same way
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”