I agree, Italophile, it sounds like a green-shouldered variety and isn't Green Tiger.
I wonder if it is related to Marmande (one of my favourites), which often has green shoulders but is rather too large to be the actual one. I also grow Brandywine which has the green shoulders but, again, is too large. I think many of the potato-leaved varieties may have the colouration mentioned. While looking for these, I came across this site (go to the tomato seeds section):
Some nice varieties on offer there, Bob, but the Pinks are a bit limited. There are some glorious Pink toms kicking around like Marianna's Peace. I think it pushes Brandywine for flavour.
It's the time-frame that's the key, I think. The "blacks" - that can produce some striking green shoulders - weren't widely available 40 years ago. They've became fashionable in the last 10-15 years.
A couple of my fanatical grower friends got back to me. They're in the U.S., the home of heirloom tomato fanatics, so their knowledge of what might have been available in the UK at the time is limited, unortunately.
Bob, I think you're on the right track with something like Marmande - even if it isn't the one - because it was more than likely a European vartiety.
Janie, if you're still around, do you remember where the tomato came from? A shop? Someone's garden?
And just to get a better idea of the green shoulders, do you recall it looking anything like this?
Good morning - I am indebted to Italophile and Bobthegardener for your recent discussions about my lost tomatos and am thrilled to read your observations. To answer some of your queries - it was not a blackish tomato, it was quite reddish with lovely green shoulders. From what I remember, it was a smoothish tom rather than a knobbly one but I might be wrong but what was so striking, was the flavour. I have never tasted the like since. We used to buy them on Grantham market every Saturday and the stall holder only sold tomatoes and there was a queue every week so you had to go early to get some!! Italophile, if the second tomato picture has a magnificent flavour, I would say that you are on the right lines - the picture with three tomatoes shows the green stripes eminating from the centre of the tomato. This is a feature I remember well. Your assistance is much appriciated. Janie
Janie, that they were from a market suggests they were probably homegrown.
The first photo - the three toms together - is a German Johnson, an American heirloom from, from memory, around Virginia. I'm not sure how the seeds would have found their way to the UK that long ago.
It's very similar to a tom called German Pink, a variety from, you guessed it, Germany. A lot closer to the UK than Virginia, USA. German Pink is a green-shouldered variety.
Here's a German Pink:
There's quite a bit of yellow on the shoulders in the photo. There's usually more green.
The second photo - two toms, one with vivid green - is of an heirloom tom called Cherokee Purple. Absolutely delicious tom, rich in flavour. I grow them every year. But it can't have been your tom because Cherokee Purple has only been around for 20-odd years.
Pity you never saw the plant from which the toms came. It would help narrow things down. For example, German Pink is a Potato Leaf variety, the leaves have virtually smooth edges, as distinct from the jagged, saw-tooth edges of the traditional tomato leaf.
Dear Italophile - thank you for your reply. I really think it would be worth me trying to grow the Cherokee Purple (and Brandywine though my tomato was not a beef tom) just to taste a delicious flavour again and since you grow them and are so knowledgable about tomatoes, you would not grow the wrong tomato for yourself. I will try and find some plants if it is not too late or have to wait till next season with seed. I have learned so much from this forum. Many thanks Janie
Janie, you won't find Cherokee Purple plants anywhere. Seeds are available commercially. I have saved seeds for CP and a number of other even nicer heirlooms. Marianna's Peace, for example, rivals Brandywine for flavour, I think. I can send you any number of seeds if you like.
Here's a link to my gardening blog (which, I'm ashamed to admit, I haven't updated in eons). You can let me know your email address and/or name and address by posting in the comments section. I won't publish the details.
Dear Italophile. Thank you for your offer of seed. I have looked into sending my details via your very interesting blog site but I see it is via google and I am concerned at google security. However, your sheer delight at talking tomatoes is so infectious and I have been enthused by your responses that I will strive to find tasty tom seed here in the UK. I will enjoy going through your blog at my leisure and wish you well now and always. Janie
There wouldn't be any security problem, Janie, nothing is stored, it would be deleted as soon as I read it. But anyway, no problems. For true flavour you're going to have to go with heirlooms and you'll probably only find them with online seed suppliers. Here are a couple of recommendations for you to look for:
Marianna's Peace - as I said, a tomato great. Large dark pink beefsteak on a potato leaf plant. Like a glass of fine red wine.
Cherokee Purple - it's mentioned on the blog. Its sister, Cherokee Chocolate, also on the blog, isn't far behind. Doesn't have quite the same intensity of flavour.
Brandywine OTV - another dark pink befsteak on a potato leaf plant. The result of an accidental cross between a Brandywine and an unknown yellow tom, grown out and stabilised by a couple of American growers. More productive and less temperamental than Brandywine and a delicious tom.
Soldacki - a Polish variety, yet another dark pink beefsteak on a PL plant. Beautiful tom.
Posts
I agree, Italophile, it sounds like a green-shouldered variety and isn't Green Tiger.
I wonder if it is related to Marmande (one of my favourites), which often has green shoulders but is rather too large to be the actual one. I also grow Brandywine which has the green shoulders but, again, is too large. I think many of the potato-leaved varieties may have the colouration mentioned. While looking for these, I came across this site (go to the tomato seeds section):
http://www.heirloomtoms.org/index.html
I'll definitely be looking there for some interesting varieties for next year, when it comes to seed buying time!
Some nice varieties on offer there, Bob, but the Pinks are a bit limited. There are some glorious Pink toms kicking around like Marianna's Peace. I think it pushes Brandywine for flavour.
It's the time-frame that's the key, I think. The "blacks" - that can produce some striking green shoulders - weren't widely available 40 years ago. They've became fashionable in the last 10-15 years.
A couple of my fanatical grower friends got back to me. They're in the U.S., the home of heirloom tomato fanatics, so their knowledge of what might have been available in the UK at the time is limited, unortunately.
Bob, I think you're on the right track with something like Marmande - even if it isn't the one - because it was more than likely a European vartiety.
Janie, if you're still around, do you remember where the tomato came from? A shop? Someone's garden?
And just to get a better idea of the green shoulders, do you recall it looking anything like this?
Or this?
Just bumping this for Janie to see it and respond.
Good morning - I am indebted to Italophile and Bobthegardener for your recent discussions about my lost tomatos and am thrilled to read your observations. To answer some of your queries - it was not a blackish tomato, it was quite reddish with lovely green shoulders. From what I remember, it was a smoothish tom rather than a knobbly one but I might be wrong but what was so striking, was the flavour. I have never tasted the like since. We used to buy them on Grantham market every Saturday and the stall holder only sold tomatoes and there was a queue every week so you had to go early to get some!! Italophile, if the second tomato picture has a magnificent flavour, I would say that you are on the right lines - the picture with three tomatoes shows the green stripes eminating from the centre of the tomato. This is a feature I remember well. Your assistance is much appriciated.
Janie
Janie, that they were from a market suggests they were probably homegrown.
The first photo - the three toms together - is a German Johnson, an American heirloom from, from memory, around Virginia. I'm not sure how the seeds would have found their way to the UK that long ago.
It's very similar to a tom called German Pink, a variety from, you guessed it, Germany. A lot closer to the UK than Virginia, USA. German Pink is a green-shouldered variety.
Here's a German Pink:
There's quite a bit of yellow on the shoulders in the photo. There's usually more green.
The second photo - two toms, one with vivid green - is of an heirloom tom called Cherokee Purple. Absolutely delicious tom, rich in flavour. I grow them every year. But it can't have been your tom because Cherokee Purple has only been around for 20-odd years.
Pity you never saw the plant from which the toms came. It would help narrow things down. For example, German Pink is a Potato Leaf variety, the leaves have virtually smooth edges, as distinct from the jagged, saw-tooth edges of the traditional tomato leaf.
Dear Italophile - thank you for your reply. I really think it would be worth me trying to grow the Cherokee Purple (and Brandywine though my tomato was not a beef tom) just to taste a delicious flavour again and since you grow them and are so knowledgable about tomatoes, you would not grow the wrong tomato for yourself. I will try and find some plants if it is not too late or have to wait till next season with seed. I have learned so much from this forum. Many thanks Janie
Janie, you won't find Cherokee Purple plants anywhere. Seeds are available commercially. I have saved seeds for CP and a number of other even nicer heirlooms. Marianna's Peace, for example, rivals Brandywine for flavour, I think. I can send you any number of seeds if you like.
Here's a link to my gardening blog (which, I'm ashamed to admit, I haven't updated in eons). You can let me know your email address and/or name and address by posting in the comments section. I won't publish the details.
http://ourtuscangarden.blogspot.it/
BTW, the posts on the blog about flowers are by my wife!
Mmm. You'll have to cut and paste that address into your browser. I don't know why posting links is so difficult on these boards.
Dear Italophile. Thank you for your offer of seed. I have looked into sending my details via your very interesting blog site but I see it is via google and I am concerned at google security. However, your sheer delight at talking tomatoes is so infectious and I have been enthused by your responses that I will strive to find tasty tom seed here in the UK. I will enjoy going through your blog at my leisure and wish you well now and always. Janie
There wouldn't be any security problem, Janie, nothing is stored, it would be deleted as soon as I read it. But anyway, no problems. For true flavour you're going to have to go with heirlooms and you'll probably only find them with online seed suppliers. Here are a couple of recommendations for you to look for:
Marianna's Peace - as I said, a tomato great. Large dark pink beefsteak on a potato leaf plant. Like a glass of fine red wine.
Cherokee Purple - it's mentioned on the blog. Its sister, Cherokee Chocolate, also on the blog, isn't far behind. Doesn't have quite the same intensity of flavour.
Brandywine OTV - another dark pink befsteak on a potato leaf plant. The result of an accidental cross between a Brandywine and an unknown yellow tom, grown out and stabilised by a couple of American growers. More productive and less temperamental than Brandywine and a delicious tom.
Soldacki - a Polish variety, yet another dark pink beefsteak on a PL plant. Beautiful tom.
Best of luck!