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Legionnaires desease in compost

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  • SwissSueSwissSue Posts: 1,447

    Only anthrax, fb, what about mad cow disease?!image

  • fidgetbonesfidgetbones Posts: 17,613

    I think you have to eat it to get mad cow disease.image

    Anthrax forms spores which can be inhaled.  There was an outbreak last year amongst heroin users. Something nasty was being used to  cut the neat heroin. They were then injecting it or smoking it. Five people died even though it can be treated with antibiotics if caught early enough.

  • I thought all composts were sterilised before packaged and sold? they used to be.

  • BoaterBoater Posts: 241

    I think there is more to it than seems to have been reported, as I recall legionnaires disease is only transmitted by inhalation of infected water droplets which are found in a relatively fine spray mist (my dad was a building services engineer and occasionally had to rush to work at odd times to sort out HVAC systems that had found to be harbouring it), not by inhaling dry soil dust. I'm no biologist (engineer) but I reckon there must have been sprayed water involved (watering in the bought compost?) as well as the compost. I think if you buy dry compost and water it with a can there should be no problem, in fact I doubt if wet compost poses any health risk unless you are doing something to make the water in it turn to spray mist.

    Looking at that most reliable of internet sources image, wikipediaimage, it seems there are 2 strains of legionella - the one that causes legionnaires is only found in water, the one that is found in soil leads to pontiac fever - I'm sure it is no less dangerous but it just goes to show that the papers have probably reported the wrong disease, either through poor research or because no-one has heard of pontiac fever.....

    However since my research is what I remember my dad telling me several years ago, and wikipedia, I'm in no position to call the papers research sloppy!image

  • Boater - for more info on Pontiac fever?

    http://www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/PontiacFever/

     

    I think the hpa may be a more reliable source. According to the hpa "Pontiac fever is a mild flu-like illness caused be legionella bacteria, often affecting previously healthy and young individuals. Symptoms can include fever, headaches and muscle aches but, unlike Legionnaires' disease, Pontiac fever does not cause pneumonia.  The illness will usually clear up without treatment within two to three days."

    Sounds to me that Pontiac fever is nowhere near as dangerous/serious as Legionaires' disease.

    (The HPA link was thrown up via a quick Google using "Pontiac fever" as a seaqrch phrase. The HPA could be considered more, um, reliable. The HPA article on Pontiac Fever mentions four separate species of Legionella bacteria. Their ;ink for Legionnaires is http://www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/LegionnairesDisease/ )

     

  • Out of interest the Beeb reported the  on October 1st - before the Daily Mail.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24348811.

    Pathogens (anything that can cause disease) are everywhere. Gardeners and agriculture use them extensively (a subset of 'biological controls'). Some pathogens are favourable to gardeners/horticulture as they provide 'breaks' in new sports of plants.

    Fidgetbones? Peat is  a recycled product, but it is one which takes a long time to get from the original state to something which resembles that which comes in a plastic bag from the garden centre. Extraction exceeds creation. I've walked around some old peat workings and they are not pretty sights (even after remedial action).

  • A little perspective perhaps?  

    Around 350 people get Legionnaires disease each year.  That's roughly 1 per day and we're talking about 5 cases.  That's around 1.4% of all cases of a disease that affects about 0.0005% of the population.  Legionnaires kills around 13% of victims  (although usually it is an underlying condition that kills the patient).  So the disease kills around 0.000065% of the population (or about 1 in 1.5m people).

    There were almost 9000 alcohol related deaths in the UK in 2010 (about 1 in 8000 people).

     

  • BoaterBoater Posts: 241

    The HPA has more information on the 'aerosolisation' needed to transmit the disease:

    http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1204186178183

    It seems that to be small enough to cause infection the mist droplets actually evaporate to a form dry nucleus containing the bacteria, no mention that fine enough particles can be created entirely dry though, looks like there is always water involved.Of course you do need to water compost so I guess that must be the risk time?

  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,099

    Farmer- absolutely. Perspective is what's needed. I'm  more likely to get squished crossing the road. Look how many road deaths there are every year. We're getting to the point where no one will set foot out their back doors. image

    And next week it'll be something else...bacon, jam, socks....

    whatever happened to bird flu anyway??? image

    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • fidgetbonesfidgetbones Posts: 17,613

    95%of peat extracted in Ireland is burnt in power stations. I doubt that any British government is going to stop that.  Even if an "Environmental tax"  of £1 a bag is put on imported peat products, I would rather pay that than spend hours sieving rubbish, as I did with some Lidl compost this year.

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