If a surveyor comes to see the problem, drop a note in through the neighbour's door, saying the surveyor will need access to the wall. He may refuse, but realistically from what you describe the wall must be inspected at some point.
If the extension was built many, many years ago the neighbouring garden must have been put against the extension comparatively recently. The Edwardians didn't go in for patios.
I know what you mean, Welshonion:-; I think part of the garden at least has been built up, as some of it is higher than the rest of the garden. And thanks all for the tanking idea. We have a damp proof specialist (another one!) coming on Thursday, so I'll ask him if he can do it. As you say KT, if it can keep damp out of a cellar it should be able to sort out one wall. It would certainly be less hassle than litigation.
Thanks everyone again for your advice, I'm grateful that you've all taken the time to write with ideas.
Be aware that if the problem is worked around now when you come to sell your buyer's surveyor may see the problem and flag it up. It won't go away if the banked up garden next door is not tackled, unfortunately.
Hello Gail, You're surveyor should have picked up on this, if you are to send letter's out it should be to them, as they missed a major flaw. I bet the old owners knew the mess they had made by building upto the boundry. Never a good idea to build to the boundry when you can not clean gutters ect with going onto someone else's land. How would you go on if he put a couple of shed's up. Would you ask him to move his shed's so you can get access? Or worse he builds to the boundry. It would be like "do you mind pulling your extension down so I can paint the side of my house". I would think that the neighbour is within his rights to refuse access via his property. Nobody has the right to go onto someone else's property without the landowners permission. Even the police without a good reason, its trespass. If his garden has been raised that would be illegal, but you would have to prove that it has, and it's not you're garden that has been dug out by the old owners. It could be very expensive to try and get a court order allowing you permission. Hopefully the damp proof specialist coming will have better idea's of how to do the job. I know where I live, some solicitors have a Saturday morning clinic for free advice and a chat. In the hope they eventually get the job. Would be well worth having a look what's in your area, I hope you find a amicable way out of this, even if it takes begging him on bended knees. Good Luck
I'm thinking too that we'll have a problem selling, as any surveyor doing their job properly will see it. If he tries to put sheds in his garden I think he would need planning permission (we're in a conservation area), and so hopefully we'd be able to block him doing that. His garden (and ours) are pretty small anyway, so hopefully he'll never want to:-; I'll admit I regret the day we bought this house, a nice modern one with an inbuilt damp proof course would have been much better! Access is the one thing we did check though, apparently we have a right to go in to his garden if it's just for repairs to our house. And we wouldn't be interested in making any alterations, so we'd only ever want access for maintenance. I know what you mean about litigation, the thought of ending up with an endless law suit scares the life out of me!
Yes Gail, you most definitely do have the legal right to enter his property to maintain yours. It is your right and his obligation. And it is always so much better if neighbours can understand their obligations as well as their rights.
I think that a soilicitors letter, which will not be too expensive, will make him see sense. After all, I'm sure that he fears the cost of litigation just as much as you do.
It seems that two of the (as yet) unanswered questions are:
1. Does your neighbour's patio actually raise the original level of the ground? Or...
2. ...was material removed from the top before laying the patio to result in a finished patio which is no higher than what was originally there?
There is one way you might be able to determine that, or at least get some idea: you could try to compare his patio level with his own damp course, if there is one. If there isn't one, then just below the lower cross rail (doorstep) of his door.
If the top of his patio is less than 6 inches from the damp course (or equivalent level) it could indicate a possibility that building the patio raised the original ground level.
I'm not a builder so you need a someone more expert than me to confirm the 6 inch criteria, especially if the property is very old.
I just remember building a patio at my last house (1950s) in ignorance of the risks attached to it ending up only 3 or 4 inches from the damp course.
Fortunately, I found out in time to ensure there was a much lower channel right next to the wall so the DPC was not breached and splash back of heavy rain didn't create a problem But it was not a satisfactory way to build the patio. I could have caused my own house huge problems.
I'm glad we had the whole thing dug out a few years later for a properly built conservatory, so all subsequent damp risks were resolved for us and our subsequent buyers.
Thank you Waterbutts, I'm sure as well that we have the right to enter his garden for maintenance. I think your idea of a solicitors letter is a good one, as you say he has an obligation to make sure he doesn't damage our property.
And thank you Birdy for your points, I've been wondering something similar. Because our kitchen extension was built around 1920 (before today's tight regulations probably!), we can't rule out the possibility that the kitchen floor was cut down a little into the ground. And there's no way really of finding out. But his patio isn't higher than the back of his house (it's a little lower in fact), which suggests that the patio may have been built up from the original ground level. The edging of the patio definitely has, as it's higher than the ground level even of his garden. The next time he's out, I'm going to stick my head out of our kitchen window to see if there's any damp course visible (he did mention putting one in). Thanks that's a good point, I didn't think to look at that before. And it's interesting what you say about your patio and splash back. I'd defnitely feel easier if he would pull his patio away from our house a little! Thanks for your points, they're very helpful.
Yes you have a right, but not without you're neighbours permission. You can not just send the builders round if he has refused, you will need a court order. But getting a court order could be refused, if he say's that it will stop him enjoying his garden and land.
But his patio isn't higher than the back of his house (it's a little lower in fact), which suggests that the patio may have been built up from the original ground level.
Gail: I'm not sure what you mean by 'the back of his house'.
1. If you mean his 'back garden' then logically, if his patio is lower than the rest of the garden, that would suggest the ground was dug out to accommodate the new patio in order to avoid causing damp problems to buildings - in other words, it was not the neighbour's patio that has caused your damp problem.
2. If, however, you mean his patio is only 'a little lower' than his DPC level (or equivalent) AND if by 'a little lower' you mean less than 6 inches, this could mean the patio has been laid on top of the (then) existing ground level and that whoever is responsible for building the patio would seem to have done so irresponsibly because it has raised the ground level too much - but even then, only if it can be proved that water levels and 'splash back' of rain are the cause of your damp problem (And not, for example, an underground water course).
It is also important to see which way the water runs off his patio:
Does it run...
into his garden (as it should)?
back towards his house? This could be very destructive for his house and means shoddy building and disregard of levels and own property.
Sideways towards your house? This could explain your damp problem and also means shoddy building and disregard of levell and risk to neighbouring property.
They are just a few considerations that might help you define the problem and ascertain liability.
Posts
If a surveyor comes to see the problem, drop a note in through the neighbour's door, saying the surveyor will need access to the wall. He may refuse, but realistically from what you describe the wall must be inspected at some point.
If the extension was built many, many years ago the neighbouring garden must have been put against the extension comparatively recently. The Edwardians didn't go in for patios.
I know what you mean, Welshonion:-; I think part of the garden at least has been built up, as some of it is higher than the rest of the garden. And thanks all for the tanking idea. We have a damp proof specialist (another one!) coming on Thursday, so I'll ask him if he can do it. As you say KT, if it can keep damp out of a cellar it should be able to sort out one wall. It would certainly be less hassle than litigation.
Thanks everyone again for your advice, I'm grateful that you've all taken the time to write with ideas.
Be aware that if the problem is worked around now when you come to sell your buyer's surveyor may see the problem and flag it up. It won't go away if the banked up garden next door is not tackled, unfortunately.
Hello Gail, You're surveyor should have picked up on this, if you are to send letter's out it should be to them, as they missed a major flaw. I bet the old owners knew the mess they had made by building upto the boundry. Never a good idea to build to the boundry when you can not clean gutters ect with going onto someone else's land. How would you go on if he put a couple of shed's up. Would you ask him to move his shed's so you can get access? Or worse he builds to the boundry. It would be like "do you mind pulling your extension down so I can paint the side of my house". I would think that the neighbour is within his rights to refuse access via his property. Nobody has the right to go onto someone else's property without the landowners permission. Even the police without a good reason, its trespass. If his garden has been raised that would be illegal, but you would have to prove that it has, and it's not you're garden that has been dug out by the old owners. It could be very expensive to try and get a court order allowing you permission. Hopefully the damp proof specialist coming will have better idea's of how to do the job. I know where I live, some solicitors have a Saturday morning clinic for free advice and a chat. In the hope they eventually get the job. Would be well worth having a look what's in your area, I hope you find a amicable way out of this, even if it takes begging him on bended knees. Good Luck
I'm thinking too that we'll have a problem selling, as any surveyor doing their job properly will see it. If he tries to put sheds in his garden I think he would need planning permission (we're in a conservation area), and so hopefully we'd be able to block him doing that. His garden (and ours) are pretty small anyway, so hopefully he'll never want to:-; I'll admit I regret the day we bought this house, a nice modern one with an inbuilt damp proof course would have been much better! Access is the one thing we did check though, apparently we have a right to go in to his garden if it's just for repairs to our house. And we wouldn't be interested in making any alterations, so we'd only ever want access for maintenance. I know what you mean about litigation, the thought of ending up with an endless law suit scares the life out of me!
Yes Gail, you most definitely do have the legal right to enter his property to maintain yours. It is your right and his obligation. And it is always so much better if neighbours can understand their obligations as well as their rights.
I think that a soilicitors letter, which will not be too expensive, will make him see sense. After all, I'm sure that he fears the cost of litigation just as much as you do.
It seems that two of the (as yet) unanswered questions are:
1. Does your neighbour's patio actually raise the original level of the ground? Or...
2. ...was material removed from the top before laying the patio to result in a finished patio which is no higher than what was originally there?
There is one way you might be able to determine that, or at least get some idea: you could try to compare his patio level with his own damp course, if there is one. If there isn't one, then just below the lower cross rail (doorstep) of his door.
If the top of his patio is less than 6 inches from the damp course (or equivalent level) it could indicate a possibility that building the patio raised the original ground level.
I'm not a builder so you need a someone more expert than me to confirm the 6 inch criteria, especially if the property is very old.
I just remember building a patio at my last house (1950s) in ignorance of the risks attached to it ending up only 3 or 4 inches from the damp course.
Fortunately, I found out in time to ensure there was a much lower channel right next to the wall so the DPC was not breached and splash back of heavy rain didn't create a problem But it was not a satisfactory way to build the patio. I could have caused my own house huge problems.
I'm glad we had the whole thing dug out a few years later for a properly built conservatory, so all subsequent damp risks were resolved for us and our subsequent buyers.
Thank you Waterbutts, I'm sure as well that we have the right to enter his garden for maintenance. I think your idea of a solicitors letter is a good one, as you say he has an obligation to make sure he doesn't damage our property.
And thank you Birdy for your points, I've been wondering something similar. Because our kitchen extension was built around 1920 (before today's tight regulations probably!), we can't rule out the possibility that the kitchen floor was cut down a little into the ground. And there's no way really of finding out. But his patio isn't higher than the back of his house (it's a little lower in fact), which suggests that the patio may have been built up from the original ground level. The edging of the patio definitely has, as it's higher than the ground level even of his garden. The next time he's out, I'm going to stick my head out of our kitchen window to see if there's any damp course visible (he did mention putting one in). Thanks that's a good point, I didn't think to look at that before. And it's interesting what you say about your patio and splash back. I'd defnitely feel easier if he would pull his patio away from our house a little! Thanks for your points, they're very helpful.
Yes you have a right, but not without you're neighbours permission. You can not just send the builders round if he has refused, you will need a court order. But getting a court order could be refused, if he say's that it will stop him enjoying his garden and land.
Gail: I'm not sure what you mean by 'the back of his house'.
1. If you mean his 'back garden' then logically, if his patio is lower than the rest of the garden, that would suggest the ground was dug out to accommodate the new patio in order to avoid causing damp problems to buildings - in other words, it was not the neighbour's patio that has caused your damp problem.
2. If, however, you mean his patio is only 'a little lower' than his DPC level (or equivalent) AND if by 'a little lower' you mean less than 6 inches, this could mean the patio has been laid on top of the (then) existing ground level and that whoever is responsible for building the patio would seem to have done so irresponsibly because it has raised the ground level too much - but even then, only if it can be proved that water levels and 'splash back' of rain are the cause of your damp problem (And not, for example, an underground water course).
It is also important to see which way the water runs off his patio:
Does it run...
They are just a few considerations that might help you define the problem and ascertain liability.