If the horse eats grass and deposits on the ground it will help to fertilize the ground .It is not harming the horse or the ground its what nature intended to do with the waste.Human and animals that are carnivores are different from the vegetarian point of view as to the eating of flesh at the ended of the day its all waste that's returned to the earth.
Last time i looked at macrobiotics was about 20 or 30 years ago and it seems things have moved on and occasional white fish is allowed. However, it still is based mainly on whole grains and certain veggies and cooking processes and even materials are discouraged. See below. In the UK, GM foods are not yet accepted for growing and the EU has mechanisms for testing imported grain feeds for GM and other unwanted features so I rather feel the horses will just be eating hay and ordinary cereals.
A macrobiotic diet combines elements of Buddhism with dietary principles based on simplicity and avoidance of "toxins" that come from eating dairy products, meats, and oily foods. Older versions of the macrobiotic diet were quite restrictive. One variation allowed only the consumption of whole grains. Current proponents of the diet advocate flexibility but still discourage dairy products, meats, and refined sugars,
The standard macrobiotic diet of today consists of 50 to 60 percent organically grown whole grains, 20% to 25% locally and organically grown fruits and vegetables, and 5% to 10% soups made with vegetables, seaweed, grains, beans, and miso (a fermented soy product). Other elements may include occasional helpings of fresh white fish, nuts, seeds, pickles, Asian condiments, and non-stimulating and non-aromatic teas. Early versions of the diet excluded all animal products. Proponents still discourage dairy products, eggs, coffee, sugar, stimulant and aromatic herbs, red meat, poultry, and processed foods. Some vegetables, such as potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, asparagus, spinach, beets, zucchini, and avocados, are discouraged. The diet also advises against eating fruit that does not grow locally (for example, in most of the United States and Europe, bananas, pineapples, and other tropical fruits).
Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
"The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
Do you think, Gily, you are over-thinking all this?
If you are eating fish, surely you are not a true vegan so why are you so concerned?
And yet again you use the word antibiotics when talking about horse feed.
GM is a difficult one. Anybody that eats cornflakes and such like breakfast cereals, presumably is eating GM products, unless they are specified as organic, That is also the case for all animal feeds which contain soya as 80% of the soya produced in the USA is GM.
GM has been around for ages. Back then it was called selective breeding, and took a long time to do. If you can short-cut with GM, then I'm all for it.
But then again, to me, Meat is Dinner, when I grew up (not that long ago), you ate what was on your plate, there was no alternative if you didn't like it, tough. Any diet which restricts any type of food, unless there is a medical reason for it, I find a bit dubious.
I also think horse manure is horse manure. They are not fed on the same rubbish that cows were fed on a few years ago that caused BSE (feeding a herbivore on the carcasses of sheep with scrapie, however much it was 'processed' is just plain wrong). Hopefully we've learnt from our mistakes. Each to their own, the thing that annoys me is when someone tries to tell me that their way is better and my way will give me cancer or some other such scare story. Lots of cancers are genetic, lots of cancers are caused by environmental factors. I believe when it's your time, you go, if it's not your time, you survive. Tradition is important, but the good old days weren't that good. Poverty was rife, childhood diseases were killers, and many went without because there just wasn't enough food to go round. We are living in a golden age where the children we have are likely to live to see adulthood, most have a roof over their heads, are warm enough and have full bellies at night, and if you are ill, help is available. Not everyone has these basic comforts, and here we are discussing the merits of horse poo
Thank-you MMP- that is the most sensible post that has been made on this thread-I fail too see how being a vegan is saving the planet which was one of the wilder claims-full merit to Gily for putting her head above the parapet but just can't accept this philosophy
As has said each to their own but I am quite happy striking the "balance" by eating a proper diet of meat,fish and veg as does the vast majority of people in this country.
MMP I so agree with you, but.................. Selective breeding is not the same as Genetically Modified. With GM alien genes are put into something. With selective breeding you cross and re-cross until the desirable trait you want is dominant. That is how all the wonderful range of plant colours and habits come about; high-yielding vegetables and grains. Their breeding is essentially natural.
GM can mean putting say, fish genes into plants, or mice or insects. Not the same thing at all.
...GM can mean putting say, fish genes into plants, or mice or insects,...
I'm trying to think why anyone would want to put a fish gene into a plant.
I suppose you could put a sardine gene into a tomato, and get a tomato that tasted like a sardine. I sometimes purchase Sardine and Tomato paste. So, I could actually have sardine and tomato sandwishes, made entirely from my own tomatoes. Seems a good idea.
If insect genes were put into mice, mice could fly. I don't think that is quite such a good idea, although the mice would probably like it.
Now we're getting silly! What I was trying to say is that GM started out as a short-cut for all of the selective breeding, so we could achive in a few years what would normally take several generations. Mankind has always been looking for new and innovative ways to kill himself. I don't know why we call common sense common, when quite clearly it's lacking in some scientist that thinks crossing a fish with a tree, or a kangaroo with a sweetcorn is a good idea......
Gary, I love Herring in tomato sauce although it is not good for the gout so once a month, but, if I could grow it all in one of my tomato's the sky is the limit. Speaking of which, I do not mind flying mice but flying pigs??? Frank.
There are not very many certainties in life ... however one is we die (sorry if that sounds brutal), and another is everything, (yes, everything), changes. It is our choice how consciously we lead our lives - it does not make me or you a better person.
If I get his permission, I will post Richard Sanford's response for people who are interested in horse manure! I think we may find that he is interested/conscious because he is fighting cancer.
Posts
If the horse eats grass and deposits on the ground it will help to fertilize the ground .It is not harming the horse or the ground its what nature intended to do with the waste.Human and animals that are carnivores are different from the vegetarian point of view as to the eating of flesh at the ended of the day its all waste
that's returned to the earth.
Last time i looked at macrobiotics was about 20 or 30 years ago and it seems things have moved on and occasional white fish is allowed. However, it still is based mainly on whole grains and certain veggies and cooking processes and even materials are discouraged. See below. In the UK, GM foods are not yet accepted for growing and the EU has mechanisms for testing imported grain feeds for GM and other unwanted features so I rather feel the horses will just be eating hay and ordinary cereals.
A macrobiotic diet combines elements of Buddhism with dietary principles based on simplicity and avoidance of "toxins" that come from eating dairy products, meats, and oily foods. Older versions of the macrobiotic diet were quite restrictive. One variation allowed only the consumption of whole grains. Current proponents of the diet advocate flexibility but still discourage dairy products, meats, and refined sugars,
The standard macrobiotic diet of today consists of 50 to 60 percent organically grown whole grains, 20% to 25% locally and organically grown fruits and vegetables, and 5% to 10% soups made with vegetables, seaweed, grains, beans, and miso (a fermented soy product). Other elements may include occasional helpings of fresh white fish, nuts, seeds, pickles, Asian condiments, and non-stimulating and non-aromatic teas. Early versions of the diet excluded all animal products. Proponents still discourage dairy products, eggs, coffee, sugar, stimulant and aromatic herbs, red meat, poultry, and processed foods. Some vegetables, such as potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, asparagus, spinach, beets, zucchini, and avocados, are discouraged. The diet also advises against eating fruit that does not grow locally (for example, in most of the United States and Europe, bananas, pineapples, and other tropical fruits).
Do you think, Gily, you are over-thinking all this?
If you are eating fish, surely you are not a true vegan so why are you so concerned?
And yet again you use the word antibiotics when talking about horse feed.
GM is a difficult one. Anybody that eats cornflakes and such like breakfast cereals, presumably is eating GM products, unless they are specified as organic, That is also the case for all animal feeds which contain soya as 80% of the soya produced in the USA is GM.
All I can say, is 'It's your choice'.
GM has been around for ages. Back then it was called selective breeding, and took a long time to do. If you can short-cut with GM, then I'm all for it.
But then again, to me, Meat is Dinner, when I grew up (not that long ago), you ate what was on your plate, there was no alternative if you didn't like it, tough. Any diet which restricts any type of food, unless there is a medical reason for it, I find a bit dubious.
I also think horse manure is horse manure. They are not fed on the same rubbish that cows were fed on a few years ago that caused BSE (feeding a herbivore on the carcasses of sheep with scrapie, however much it was 'processed' is just plain wrong). Hopefully we've learnt from our mistakes. Each to their own, the thing that annoys me is when someone tries to tell me that their way is better and my way will give me cancer or some other such scare story. Lots of cancers are genetic, lots of cancers are caused by environmental factors. I believe when it's your time, you go, if it's not your time, you survive. Tradition is important, but the good old days weren't that good. Poverty was rife, childhood diseases were killers, and many went without because there just wasn't enough food to go round. We are living in a golden age where the children we have are likely to live to see adulthood, most have a roof over their heads, are warm enough and have full bellies at night, and if you are ill, help is available. Not everyone has these basic comforts, and here we are discussing the merits of horse poo
Thank-you MMP- that is the most sensible post that has been made on this thread-I fail too see how being a vegan is saving the planet which was one of the wilder claims-full merit to Gily for putting her head above the parapet but just can't accept this philosophy
As has said each to their own but I am quite happy striking the "balance" by eating a proper diet of meat,fish and veg as does the vast majority of people in this country.
MMP I so agree with you, but.................. Selective breeding is not the same as Genetically Modified. With GM alien genes are put into something. With selective breeding you cross and re-cross until the desirable trait you want is dominant. That is how all the wonderful range of plant colours and habits come about; high-yielding vegetables and grains. Their breeding is essentially natural.
GM can mean putting say, fish genes into plants, or mice or insects. Not the same thing at all.
I'm trying to think why anyone would want to put a fish gene into a plant.
I suppose you could put a sardine gene into a tomato, and get a tomato that tasted like a sardine. I sometimes purchase Sardine and Tomato paste. So, I could actually have sardine and tomato sandwishes, made entirely from my own tomatoes. Seems a good idea.
If insect genes were put into mice, mice could fly. I don't think that is quite such a good idea, although the mice would probably like it.
Now we're getting silly! What I was trying to say is that GM started out as a short-cut for all of the selective breeding, so we could achive in a few years what would normally take several generations. Mankind has always been looking for new and innovative ways to kill himself. I don't know why we call common sense common, when quite clearly it's lacking in some scientist that thinks crossing a fish with a tree, or a kangaroo with a sweetcorn is a good idea......
Gary, I love Herring in tomato sauce although it is not good for the gout so once a month, but, if I could grow it all in one of my tomato's the sky is the limit.
Speaking of which, I do not mind flying mice but flying pigs???
Frank.
There are not very many certainties in life ... however one is we die (sorry if that sounds brutal), and another is everything, (yes, everything), changes. It is our choice how consciously we lead our lives - it does not make me or you a better person.
If I get his permission, I will post Richard Sanford's response for people who are interested in horse manure! I think we may find that he is interested/conscious because he is fighting cancer.