Who’s in charge?

Stulti · 31 January

I can thoroughly recommend a programme currently airing on Radio 4 which should give many people “food for thought”.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001vs7d

Even the phrase “food for thought” takes on a new meaning when you listen to this programme. It is presented by an epidemiologist and it explains why we eat the things that we eat, how the food industry exploits our likes and dislikes and the result of that pairing.

It suggests to me that the seedsmen and nurserymen have also worked on this phenomenon too. Honeycrisp apples anyone?

Each episode is only 14 minutes long so it is not too taxing on the old grey cells or even the microbes controlling them.

Loxley · 31 January

That looks interesting. I do take Tim Spector with a bit of a grain of salt though, I've heard some rather unscientific things coming out of his mouth on his pet subject of the gut microbiome, he is a bit cultish about it at times.

Fire · 31 January

Yes, I think Spector is a con artist. He has a terrible reputation in science research circles. A master of his own PR. Loves an audience.

punkdoc · 31 January

I think his "Gut Shot" has been totally destroyed by most scientists.

Stulti · 31 January

Fair enough, three votes against. Thanks for bringing my opinion of the BBC back into line. I thought they’d produced something academic rather than entertaining for a change. Silly me.

Spoiled my morning. I was rather hoping that we’d discover that our heads, arms, legs, reproductive organs etc had all just been created by and for the benefit of microbes and that our physical forms were just vessels in which they could exist and move about.

punkdoc · 31 January

Don't blame the BBC, they cover lots of issues that are controversial, as they should.

Stulti · 31 January

I wasn’t looking for controversy I was hoping for education.

But I wasn’t looking for controversy here either so I’ll leave it at that.

Fire · 31 January

Gut microbe science is no doubt the future and very interesting.

Spector was part of the American Gut Project from about 2012 (early data gathering. I was part of it) and then bought it to the UK, so he got in early and was quick off the blocks to comodify the field. Part of the conflict of interest concerns the fact that he runs his own private company and tries to balance that with being a figure of gravitas as a science educator and leader (as he did regarding Covid). It tends to lead to him overstating his case and his stats and trying to go it alone. Trying to build yourself a cult of personality is tricky if you don't have the solid data to back up your points. It all quickly becomes "Time Spector says..." Any scientist who plasters their own face all over their work to 'build their brand' is going to get short shrift from me.

I am interested in Zoe gut testing (having being involved in the American and British Gut project previously) but my scepticism of Spector's methods is holding me back. I have friends who have done it and found it revelatory and revolutionary.

https://zoe.com/

Allotment Boy · 9 February

Here are some thoughts from me for what they are worth.

My wife is a twin, so we first came across him (Tim Spector) through his twin studies and he seems a perfectly credible scientist in that field. I think a lot of what he is saying is trying to summarise the state of play as it is known now. I have been listening to this latest series & I don't think he necessarily advocates ALL these things, in todays programe he concluded by saying that he hoped to have helped people make more informed choices about food and it's effects, which seems reasonable to me.
As has been said though he has branched out into the big bad commercial world and therein lies risk. I have been taking part in the Zoe programme and have mixed views on it. Some of what they say is contradictory. I think if you know NOTHING about nutrition you could learn quite a bit I don't claim to be an expert but I am finding very little new in a lot of the "lessons" , they say its all personalised but a lot is very generic.
I DID find the testing programme worthwhile, wearing a glucose monitor for two weeks confirmed my suspicions that my blood sugar control is not great. I was also able to learn exactly what foods are an issue for me (in terms of sugar spikes). One surprise was that even porridge on it's own is not good (for me) even though convention tells us that oats give slow sustained sugar release. However the simple addition of Chia seeds before cooking changes that dynamic considerably. I have learned a few other things .
The other really useful feature is a barcode scanner that you can use to check the overall nutrition score on a lot of pre-packed foods, even things like various breads etc. Not everything is in their database but a lot is.
On the downside, 1) IT IS EXPENSIVE. 2) They want you to log your meals to score your progress, we mostly eat home made meals from fresh ingredients this can be very tedious in the app. 3) They claim nothing is excluded and it's not a diet but certain things come up as Poor or bad and this can feel a bit preachy. 4) They admit, they take no account of allergy or intolerances, they PUSH legumes, lentils etc as healthy (which they may well be for many people) but no good to you if like me you can't eat them in any significant amounts. 5) This is a bit specific to me but, I have NEVER dieted in my life my weight has been stable for 50 plus years , I always ete what I wanted when I wanted without a second thought, my wife says I am becoming obsessed about what I eat now, which is not good.
In conclusion I wouldn't say don't do it but think, what do you want to know, and achieve, is there another way you can find out?

BTW, the tests showed my gut microbiome is excellent, must be all that homegrown veg and salad.

Stulti · 9 February

I had never heard of Tim Spector or his work so it was all new to me. I did find his explanation as to why we crave sugar to be interesting and not at all “brand building”.

Craving anything is a bit foreign to me. I can take or leave most food and drink, have no special treats that I indulge in, and have never wanted to try smoking or drugs.

However, I did have one relative who was taught to smoke at the age of 8 in 1918 and who went on to smoke about fifty a day throughout his adult life. He lived on pub food, cafe food, or fish and chips for many many years. He died at the age of 86 from something completely unrelated to his “bad lifestyle”.

We are all different, I suppose.

Allotment Boy · 9 February

Stulti said:

We are all different, I suppose.

Well yes and that was the main point in one of his earlier books. He wrote about why most diets don't work long term. Your relative shows there are always exceptions, to any rule. Much of the Twins study work was trying to answer the age old question is it nature or nurture ? As ever there isn't a simple answer. It was during this twin work they noted that while most were the same there were a few where one was overweight or even obese and the other was not. It was while studying this they started to note differences in their gut microbiome . This led him to the current, somewhat evangelical, position that it's of major importance. The main point being you can't change your genes but you can influence your microbiome through your food choices.

Who’s in charge?

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