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Buying compost

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  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    LunarSea said:

    Just read on both Which & Wildlife Trusts' websites and it says sale of bagged peat-based composts is banned from end of 2024. But so far that only applies in England and only to 'amateur' gardeners.

    There might possibly be a loophole if buying stuff mail-order from outside England.
    Wales is following England's lead but there was some confusion over whether devolved powers covered this or whether it would just be UK law. Dithering won't help the retailers plan their stocking though.

    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,889
    Why has nobody made a product which is as good as peat based compost which is universally consistent in quality,at a comparable price?
    Devon.
  • wild edgeswild edges Posts: 10,497
    Hostafan1 said:
    Why has nobody made a product which is as good as peat based compost which is universally consistent in quality,at a comparable price?
    IMO a lot of companies could have followed the route that Melcourt took with their multi-purpose compost and peat could have been retained in use for specialist composts because the use would have been a tiny fraction of the previous use. People want cheap compost though and if people want it the market provides it so peat multi-purpose was used until it was banned.
    The industry was told to start phasing it out in 2011 and was given until 2020 to do so. It's now 2024 and without legislation the phase out would still be ignored. It all comes down to profit over ethics. We should be at the point where the industry is arguing that peat cannot be replaced in the few remaining selected products but they don't have a strong base to argue from sadly.

    If you can keep your head, while those around you are losing theirs, you may not have grasped the seriousness of the situation.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    Why has nobody made a product which is as good as peat based compost which is universally consistent in quality, at a comparable price?


    I assume the industry - a  trade body - thought it would evade env deadlines and that the govt wouldn't take the target seriously - because govts have generally scrapped every env target going and clearly have no qualms about ditching any aims that seem too much of a faff. The industry has had decades to sort out this issue and they completely ignored it and more fool them. Industry only ever regulates unless forced.

  • Hostafan1Hostafan1 Posts: 34,889
    Fire said:
    Why has nobody made a product which is as good as peat based compost which is universally consistent in quality, at a comparable price?


    I assume the industry - a  trade body - thought it would evade env deadlines and that the govt wouldn't take the target seriously - because govts have generally scrapped every env target going and clearly have no qualms about ditching any aims that seem too much of a faff. The industry has had decades to sort out this issue and they completely ignored it and more fool them. Industry only ever regulates unless forced.

    And so long as folks buy the crap they produce, they'll keep shoving it out there
    Devon.
  • The obvious issue is that in order to produce a good product like Melcourt do, it takes longer to digest down organic matter to make a usable mix...with time comes cost. With peat you could mix any old shit with it and it looked usable most of the time. So it's concerning pot gardening has become even more expensive and thus exclusive but maybe we are all really used to impossibly cheap compost and need to recalibrate our expectations. But certainly mixing some top soil and manure improves even the cheapest of peat free. It's an awkward transition and for once I'm glad the trade has gone ahead and making old style composts unavailable at retail locations. 
    To Plant a Garden is to Believe in Tomorrow
  • JennyJJennyJ Posts: 10,576
    It's long been my theory that the ingredients in many of the no-peat composts out there, in particular the ones with green waste or wood chip or both, just aren't rotted down for long enough before before being bagged up and put on sale. I've found that the texture and moisture-holding capacity improves noticeably if I've left bags sitting around outside all winter, but of course they need additional fertilizer then because whatever was in there has leached out, at least to some extent.
    It's mostly not about price for me, I buy whatever I can find locally (no Melcourt, for example, unless they've expanded their distribution since last year) and deal with it as best I can, adding homemade compost, sieved soil etc depending on what I'm using it for. I do get grumpy when I've bought a more expensive compost only to find that it's no better than the cheap stuff from Aldi, Lidl, Home Bargains etc. Sometimes it's noticeably worse.
    Doncaster, South Yorkshire. Soil type: sandy, well-drained
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited 31 January
    JennyJ said:
    It's long been my theory that the ingredients in many of the no-peat composts out there, in particular the ones with green waste or wood chip or both, just aren't rotted down for long enough before.
    Bruce at the RED gardens farm project in Ireland has done a lot of trialling with composts in the last few years - with green waste, bought composts and his own wide array of homemade mixes, and he has concluded much the same thing. It's fine to use course, newly brewed composts as mulches (with some caveats), but if you want fine tilth or nitrogen release, you have to let them break down before using.


    Part of the problem I have found, is that you really never know what you are going to get when you open a bought bag or a dumpy. It can indeed be shocking, though Melcourt is good. What counts as "compost" or "manure" is anyone's guess. Often a base of wood chip or animal bedding turns up. 

    Some of you may remember I did a big order for my gardening group a few years ago, where I ordered several tonnes of "compost" and "manure" from Thompsons of Crews Hill and what arrived was an embarrassment, useless for planting as was. Because they make the batches up themselves, from whatever is available at the time (I imagine, as many companies do) even if you have had a good experience in the past, it doesn't speak for the future. 

    My sense if that if companies had taken the peat moratorium (and climate change) seriously ten years ago, they would have much better infrastructre and stocks of quality material in place now. I can imagine that, coming off the back of Covid, energy price and Brexit set backs, the timing has not been easy for the industry to surf. Which says to me that one should make a decision because it is ethical, not because you are forced.

    --
    Watching this brilliant podcast (highly recommended) - it is alarming/ terrifying / sobering / clarifying to hear Bill Gates say that their is zero chance of keeping world temps below 2C. His (and his foundations') focus in keeping it below 3C. All the pleas for sense have been ignored and failed and we will reap the whirlwind.

  • LoxleyLoxley Posts: 5,698
    edited 31 January
    JennyJ said:
    no Melcourt, for example, unless they've expanded their distribution since last year
    They stock it at Wentworth Garden Centre, which is reasonably local to you, and I presume you must pass it a few times a year.

    I have to reiterate again, I've bought composts which are not non-peat, and from supposed established brands like Westland; and they have had the same smelly woodchip nonsense in them - it's about ripping off the consumer, not being peat free IMO. I agree with you, you are better off with Aldi compost than one of those, in fact the Aldi stuff is better than most of them.

    Last year there was no Melcourt available at my local place and I tried another brand, 'RocketGro' I think it was called - it was like fibres of something that smelled totally uncomposted.... not really what I wanted but then again it did describe itself as for baskets and containers, which should have been a red flag.
    "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour". 
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