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Russian Vine vs Clematis

stephenworgan22650stephenworgan22650 Posts: 3
in Problem solving
Can someone advise how I can tell the difference between Russian Vine and Clematis in winter? 

Yes, I know, that sounds like a made-up pub quiz question!  So let me explain:
- I’m a novice gardener. Having retired, I now have the time and desire to sort out my neglected garden. 
- I have a fence that’s covered to the point of groaning under the weight of climbers.  I need to seriously thin it out. 
- One of the climbers is a mature clematis. Every May/June the fence is covered in beautiful pink blooms. I want to keep the clematis. 
- One of the climbers is a Russian Vine. I’d like to chop it down and remove it completely, but the two climbers are entwined. 
- If I knew how to identify it, I’d cut the Russian vine off at the base.
- When they’re in leaf, I can’t see a thing (in terms of stems and branches). So I thought I’d wait until now, when I can see the stems and tendrils. 

The problem is, without leaves and flowers, I’m not sure how to tell apart the stem of the clematis and that of the Russian vine.  As far as I can tell,  the tendrils of one plant appear to be darker brown than the other. But that’s as far as I get!

Any help would be much appreciated. 

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Posts

  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    Welcome to the forum. Are both climbers yours? In your garden? Do you know where the original roots are?
  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    It would help to have photos - use the little postcard icon above the box.   There's a size limit glitch so try and keep your pics to 1mb.

    If that doesn't help you get answers, you can try pruning everything back hard in the next few weeks so you can clear all the top growth away without too much damage to other plants.   It sound like your clematis is a montana which means it's vigorous and will recover well tho you'll miss a year of flowering if you do it between now and May.   However, you'll find it easier to recognise the foliage form of the new growth in spring and can then dig out the Russian vine.
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • stephenworgan22650stephenworgan22650 Posts: 3
    Fire said:
    Welcome to the forum. Are both climbers yours? In your garden? Do you know where the original roots are?
    Yes, both my side of the fence. I can see the stem / base, but I can’t tell which is the clematis and which the Russian vine. When it’s daylight, I’ll take photos and add them.  
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    I agree that the way forward might be to tie string/ribbon on the base of the Clematis (so you know which plant to keep), cut everything back and try and dig out the Russian vine root (once both plants have been ID'd).
  • stephenworgan22650stephenworgan22650 Posts: 3
    Obelixx said:
    It would help to have photos - use the little postcard icon above the box.   There's a size limit glitch so try and keep your pics to 1mb.

    If that doesn't help you get answers, you can try pruning everything back hard in the next few weeks so you can clear all the top growth away without too much damage to other plants.   It sound like your clematis is a montana which means it's vigorous and will recover well tho you'll miss a year of flowering if you do it between now and May.   However, you'll find it easier to recognise the foliage form of the new growth in spring and can then dig out the Russian vine.
    Thanks. I’ll add photos of the stems tomorrow. For now, here are two taken earlier, of the growth (and I’ve noticed there’s some ivy in there too!). As you see, it’s a mat of light, dry and darker, slightly “shinier” growth.
     


  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    @StephenTrouper Do you know what the Clematis is? Perhaps a Montana if it is strong growing. The stems at this time of year are dark in colour, ribbed and squareish? I suspect the two are so intertwined that it wil be impossible without damaging the brittle stems of the clematis.
    If it a strong growing Montana it can take a tough prune but may not flower if tackled now and I recall reports of this clematis dying or being hit hard last winter. You will also have alot of stray stems to deal with. Personally I would wait until after spring flowering if it is a Montana then go for it.
    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • RubytooRubytoo Posts: 1,630
    Unless you have a reason in particular for wanting to do it now?
    I would wait and enjoy the clematis flowers next year.

    I think as you wish to keep the clematis and obviously enjoy it, I would be inclined to cut it all hard back after.

    Fires idea of tying ribbon or some string is a good idea too. If you think the job might get delayed again until a later date :D
    We often have to do things at the less than optimal time for various reasons or just sheer impatience of wanting to get the job started or done.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    I think doing radical work in the winter can be best as you can see what you're doing - what's under and behind the vining. You are sure to find other things back there. Once everything is in leaf (May/June) it's a whole different ball game -sap shooting around, birds nesting. The montana will probably only be blooming for two or three weeks.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Those thicker, slightly shiny stems in your pic are clematis. They look like a montana or one of the other early ones, which flower on old wood. Those are certainly not Russian vine   :)
    You can leave it until it flowers, then cut everything back, and then you'll be able to see the R. vine, and can remove it [which might be tricky as they can be persistent] or decide what you want to do with it. If you dont' want to use weedkillers, you can just keep cutting it back right at the the base until it gives up. The clem will grow back, and it can be useful to then train it where you want it by tying new growth in to supports.  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • bcpathomebcpathome Posts: 1,313
    Having blown up your photo I concur with fairygirl . It appears that the clematis is atop the vine . Anything behind that is vine . If I were you I would follow the clematis to its root ,shiny and dark almost red colour ,mark the root and cut away anything else carefully. I have a Russian Vine that I wish I’d never planted it’s so big now that all my neighbours enjoy it and ask me to leave it . The base is as big as my apple trees base . The neighbours have it growing along their fences and over their evergreens so  I have to keep the wretched thing 😁
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