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Just how wet is your Garden?

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  • steephillsteephill Posts: 2,841
    Despite being on a steep hill (!) mine is soggy all winter because it is north facing with lots of trees around it. The sun won't reach it till spring so it is constantly wet through condensation (dew, frost etc.).
  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    edited December 2023
    @McRazz Having worked as a gardener for over twenty years I have seen the changes to our climate slowly develop at first, Winters were cold in the early days and I rarely worked at Christmas time. As time went on it became more difficult to predict, sometimes December was a good month. In January 2022 I dug out a new lawn border it hardly rained all month.

    I now have a new build and as you can see from the photos it has it's challenges.
    Some top soil followed by clay and then a hard 'pan' which the spade bounces off.
    You can see where I have turned the soil by the fence, hard work but I have got through the 'pan' here. 
    The lawn is waterlogged. the border running down the side of the path is waterlogged, here I haven't got through the 'pan'. I will take all the soil out here when conditions improve. It won't be easy as there is plenty of cement holding the paving stones.
    I am concerned about going ahead and planting it in spring.
    Will it all need taking up again to address the drainage next winter.

    I am interested in your plans to help your soil. I have just checked and 8 large bags of manure plus a ton of light topsoil have been dug into the fence border. It is still very wet.If you have any thoughts at all on where to go next I would be most interested. Second photo below.
    Thank you Suze.

    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.

  • I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • Simone_in_WiltshireSimone_in_Wiltshire Posts: 1,073
    edited December 2023
    The ground is soaked, but weather has calmed down a bit recently. The day before my accident I had taken out a scarbiosa, and left behind a 8 inches deep hole. At some point in November I threw a bucket of water into the hole just to see how long it takes to get into the ground: more than 24 hours. 

    Area around including Thames area is filled with standing water. No drought next year I would say 😊

    I my garden.

  • McRazzMcRazz Posts: 440
    edited December 2023
    Ramble incoming; The Pan to your sub grade is to be expected on a new build as your garden would have been a heavily compacted earthen area where all the building materials for your property were set down and distributed. Its likely that large 12tonne telehandlers (forklifts) were driven right along and up to your back wall to do this and whilst logistically challenging tasks like installing your roof joists were carried out (these are often built off site these days and lifted in by teles).

    The Landscape architect would have specified deep remedial de-compaction, probably to 600mm, followed by soil replacement and consolidation in 150mm layers. This won't have happened because Dandara or Lindon or whoever built your home would have employed Bob's Landscapes - the cheapest man in the 48 counties - to do the works. Bob would have dogged in a load of 'free issue' clay from the spoil heap to bring his levels up and then blinded 150mm of graded topsoil on top. He won't have noticed the panning because; 1-he didn't even think about it, and 2-he's only planting 2litre skimmias and a handful of liriopes so doesn't have to dig deeper than his 150mm topsoil blind. His work done he disappears off into the sunset leaving a few shrivelled shrubs in his wake as he heads off to his next housing project. 

    It looks to me like you've done a good job along your fence line and you should be happy with your efforts. Hopefully in a few months with a bit of spring warmth and renewed vigor you can target the panning to the rest of your garden. That strip looks quite narrow so personally id approach this by removing the top 300mm of soil (or what you can manage) and getting in there with some heavy toolage to start breaking it apart.

    Edit - you could even install a narrow french drain down one side adjacent to your lawn to aid with drainage, if this is an issue. 

    With regards to the soils. I'm looking to create a clay based sandy loam. So i intend to ameliorate a decent quantity of sand as deep down as i can get it, along with some well composted organic matter. I too have dreadful panning at a similar depth (natural clay deposits) so ill be looking to break this up with my graft/breaker bar/mattock and get some of that washed sand deep down into the voids i create. I'm not looking to replace the clay as its wonderful at holding moisture, i just want it to drain a bit better and not dry out so quickly in the summer. Montys garden is the same, he bangs on about his harsh clay soil but actually he gardens a lovely dark, rich loam now and acknowledges his soil issues were solved decades ago. 
  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    edited December 2023
    @McRazz Thankyou for taking time to reply. As you say the original landscapers had thrown on a layer of topsoil to hide the weeds. I watched on a property nearby. Skimmias are also planted in the front, with Viburnum Tinus planted as a 'low hedge'.  The label states V Tinus 30 to 40 cm the height at planting I assume. There will be some who think it will not grow much taller. 

    With our last two gardens we did the hard landscaping ourselves. This time it has been done by professionals. The borders I wanted to do myself,  I was aware of the 'pan' and trusted no one to get the soil to the kind of level I wanted. I didn't anticipate just how wet it would be. I also want to plant it myself but the soil comes first, my best opportunity to get things right. 

    The 'pan' remains under the lawn and I hope this won't be something I live to regret as you know draining a garden can be expensive and disruptive. Your thoughts on a French Drain are welcome, if that is what we end up needing. Thankyou.

    This is a photo of my raised beds these are holding my 'nursery' plants from previous garden, these are also wet but ok.  First time Iv'e had raised beds, west facing so an opportunity for tall perennials, shrubs and grasses that like good drainage.
    Will need to improve the soil here too, I did wonder about grit in these any thoughts? They are half filled with the builders top soil and topped up with a generous amount of fine topsoil all new to me.

    Your thoughts have been a big help to me, this garden is all  new to me, I am up for the challenge.

    .






    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • @McRazz Having worked as a gardener for over twenty years I have seen the changes to our climate slowly develop at first, Winters were cold in the early days and I rarely worked at Christmas time. As time went on it became more difficult to predict, sometimes December was a good month. In January 2022 I dug out a new lawn border it hardly rained all month.

    I now have a new build and as you can see from the photos it has it's challenges.
    Some top soil followed by clay and then a hard 'pan' which the spade bounces off.
    You can see where I have turned the soil by the fence, hard work but I have got through the 'pan' here. 
    The lawn is waterlogged. the border running down the side of the path is waterlogged, here I haven't got through the 'pan'. I will take all the soil out here when conditions improve. It won't be easy as there is plenty of cement holding the paving stones.
    I am concerned about going ahead and planting it in spring.
    Will it all need taking up again to address the drainage next winter.

    I am interested in your plans to help your soil. I have just checked and 8 large bags of manure plus a ton of light topsoil have been dug into the fence border. It is still very wet.If you have any thoughts at all on where to go next I would be most interested. Second photo below.
    Thank you Suze.


    Did some lectures on soil science a few years back as part of a BSc in Plant Science and the lecturer mentioned how he had tried to improve his clay soil by adding huge amounts of sand and grit to no benefit. Not a major issue in my current garden as it is on a slope but did have to deal with regular flooding in my parent's garden which was much flatter and was a heavy clay with a hard pan. Initially I tried to deal with it by installing drains but also approached the issue with plants I believed would develop deeper roots and so be able to break up the soil deeper down and adding lots of organic material to the surface and letting the earth worms incorporate it into the soil. 

    After the shrubs(mostly black currant) got established and the used horse bedding I added had their effect, the drains no longer spouted water as they had done when I first installed them and there was heavy rain. The deep rooted plants and the earth worms acting on the organic material on the surface made it a much better soil structure that started to drain on its own without the artificial drains being needed. The soil science lecturer described this improved soil structure in clay as trying to promote peds or small lumps in the soil rather than having it formed into compacted layers and the growth of plant roots and earthworms and probably other types of soil life make this possible. I'd approach your garden design with this idea of incorporating some plants with deep roots that don't mind damp conditions and leaving organic material on the surface to encourage life in the soil as I found these strategies worked when I had to deal with very poor garden drainage in the past.

    Happy gardening!
  • McRazzMcRazz Posts: 440
    edited December 2023
    I think we're talking about the same thing but perhaps adressing slightly different issues.

    There's no option with panned clay sub base other than mechanical/manual decompaction and amelioration

    *Edited as I mentioned a few names that I probably shouldn't in a professional capacity. 
  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    Our plot is gloriously sodden, squelchy, squidgy and sopping wet for the first time in the 7 years we've been here.  We've only had 2 or 3 dry days in the last 2 months and it's been temps in the low teens at best so there's no evaporation going on which means the water can take its time soaking down to lower levels and all those parched tree and shrub roots.



       
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited December 2023
    Water situation reports just out today for November - for regions across England. c/o Environment Agency
    (I have never found the equivalent for Wales or Scotland etc).


    --

    The Hertfordshire and North London Area received 138% of the long term average rainfall for November.  Due to saturated soils and heavy rainfall, the Area received 337% of the LTA effective rainfall.

    Effective rainfall defined as "The rainfall available to percolate into the soil or produce river flow". The UK only usually gets significant 'effective rainfall' between Oct and April.



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