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Larch thrives until July, then..........

edited August 2023 in Problem solving
Two and a half years ago my wife bought me a beautiful serpentine larch to go by our Koi pond. It was a 2m tall specimen, so the first Summer was spent applying copious amounts of water.
Last Spring the dark green needles burst forth and it was beautiful: until July.
During July it began to look worse and worse, losing most of most of the needles apart from new growth at the end of the branches and even that was pale and sickly looking. I assumed the combination of very hot and very dry Summer was the cause.
 
This year, the exact same symptoms. Beautiful, dark green and lush until July and then all but the "stubs" of the needles disappeared and again, yellowish new growth.

 Problem is, this year was cool and wet in July, so I think I can rule out environmental conditions (with the possible exception of lack of nutrients). Soil is not brilliant, but stays moist without getting waterlogged.
I have checked online, but can't find the exact same symptoms anywhere.
Any help very gratefully received!
Please note, all pictures are from Aug 23.
PS. Spot the Sequoia!
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  • bédébédé Posts: 3,095
    Go back to the copious amounts of water regime.   Caveat - not on clay.
     location: Surrey Hills, England, ex-woodland acidic sand.
    "Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
  • bédé said:
    Go back to the copious amounts of water regime.   Caveat - not on clay.
    Thanks for the suggestion.
    My own caveat is that during June it was hot and dry and it flourished. During July it was cool and wet and it has suffered.
    Does anyone know the symptoms of overwatering a larch? 
  • pansyface said:
    Check out Phytophthora ramorum


    Thanks for the suggestion.
    I looked at this, but close inspection several shows differences - and why is the new growth at the ends of the shoots not affected (other than being rather yellow)?
    There are some new healthy "budding needle clusters" just starting again away from the branch tips as well and I don't know about the progress of this disease, but if it was exactly like this last Summer should it have looked so healthy again in April-June this year?
  • Thanks for the suggestions so far. Much appreciated.
    My logic goes like this so far:
    Symptoms - Two years running, same time of year (July), one year hot and dry, one year cool and wet. Newest growth sickly, but still there.
    Possible cause - some kind of pest with a life cycle making it active in July. Decimated tree and then moves to a different phase of life cycle, so newest growth not "eaten".
    Just a thought.
  • bédébédé Posts: 3,095
    edited August 2023
    I take August as start of autumn.  Wouldn't be surprised at July.  Horse chestnuts are the indicator but leaf-miner gives false indication..

    Look hard at Pic 3,  the edges od the leaves looked nibbled.  Deer?
     location: Surrey Hills, England, ex-woodland acidic sand.
    "Have nothing in your garden that you don't know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    I'd doubt very much if your tree had been over-watered.  After all, larch grows very well in western Scotland where it rains - a lot.  Its root system won't have spread very far into the surrounding soil in the time you've had it (presumably planted from a pot), and it's a tall tree, so it will still be relying on you for a lot of its water needs.

    Those older needles do look nibbled.  Did the damage happen overnight?  Does it extend to the very top of the tree (which might be above the reach of a deer, perhaps)?  Have you heard of, or seen, deer in your neighbourhood? 

    I think you should keep a very close eye on your tree next spring.  I don't know of any pest like a bug or caterpillar which would enjoy a feast of young larch needles, but you never know - and you'd need to catch it in the act to be sure.
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • RubytooRubytoo Posts: 1,630
    edited August 2023
    Sorry if I am stating the obvious but Larix (Larch) are one of the few deciduous conifers.
    Whether you have another problem alongside that fact I don't know. Other than a few in the woods near us also go yellow and drop all the needles soon, coming into autumn.

    Edited to add. They do seem to have  their very own sawfly, which may account for the chewed needles. If they are anything like the ones we get on roses and polygonatum, they can decimate the leaves quite quickly if you do not notice them.

  • Thanks for the further replies.
    Definitely not deer in our urban garden which is only accessible by cats it seems. Also the "nibbled" "florets" in the photos are 1cm in diameter or less and the problem is present uniformly on every part of every branch (apart from the ends) right to the top of this 2m tree.
    I'm leaning towards some form of bug as mentioned.
    A good dose of nuclear pesticide next June is on the cards (on a still day to avoid it getting in pond).
    Water is a puzzle - dry and hot in June and tree looked great. Wet and cool in July and it looks poorly. No harm in giving more water and a feed though, so will do that.
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    The trouble with a nuclear pesticide is that until you've seen your enemy you won't know what sort to use.  Looking at your tree every morning in June is definitely the way to go; if this is sawfly damage, which is possible (I've just found Cephalcia lariciphila on the internet), you'll almost certainly need a contact insecticide like insecticidal soap, or a biological control.  Spraying before you've seen what's doing the damage is pointless, of course.
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • plant pauperplant pauper Posts: 6,904
    Watering plants is like dieting...you may not see the results immediately. Perhaps the dry June only manifested in the wet July.
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