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Mission: thin shade hedge
catchallZeXmsGWr
Posts: 4
This is mostly about selecting the right plant I think. Basically I have tiny, bare garden (just after construction) surrounded by a 6ft (1.8m) wooden fence.
A patio sits right next to the fence, but it's too much direct sun, so I'd like to plant a 'ring' of .. plants (trees or shrubs) to provide some shade, but without sacrificing too much of the actual patio.
So, can I get a tree that:
1/ Doesn't get insanely high - I think 3m is all I need, happy to prune occasionally
2/ Can be planted right next (with roots going under) the patio, and only the trunk sticking out next to patio
3/ Ideally grows sideways a bit so I can plant them at a bit of distance.
And indeed how wide a strip of soil do I need?
To illustrate, picture below is from some street planter guide, imagine the sidewalk is my patio and the carriage walk I guess would be a fence.
I noticed that some trees with non-invasive tree roots are the acer family, so how about I plant a row of Acer Buergerianum Trident Maple, and include an irrigation system to ensure it gets enough water?
Or is this a bad plan?
A patio sits right next to the fence, but it's too much direct sun, so I'd like to plant a 'ring' of .. plants (trees or shrubs) to provide some shade, but without sacrificing too much of the actual patio.
So, can I get a tree that:
1/ Doesn't get insanely high - I think 3m is all I need, happy to prune occasionally
2/ Can be planted right next (with roots going under) the patio, and only the trunk sticking out next to patio
3/ Ideally grows sideways a bit so I can plant them at a bit of distance.
And indeed how wide a strip of soil do I need?
To illustrate, picture below is from some street planter guide, imagine the sidewalk is my patio and the carriage walk I guess would be a fence.
I noticed that some trees with non-invasive tree roots are the acer family, so how about I plant a row of Acer Buergerianum Trident Maple, and include an irrigation system to ensure it gets enough water?
Or is this a bad plan?
0
Posts
To answer a couple of your questions - no, Acers would be a bad idea. They won't appreciate full sun, especially if they get it for many hours, and through the worst heat of the day. They're not evergreen either, so that may be a factor in what you choose, depending on how long a sunny season you have etc.
I'm not sure what you mean about them growing sideways so planting at a bit of a distance? All trees and shrubs have sideways growth - all round from the base for most shrubs, and some trees as well because they can be multi stemmed. The ultimate sizes also depends on other factors - mainly climate and soil type. Some might get too big for your space. The bigger the spread, the further you'd need to plant from the patio.
Any tree or shrub will need adequate space and soil to thrive, so it will depend on your location, the soil and climate as to what will do well, and therefore how big the space for it needs to be for planting. Ideally, a few feet square at a minimum.
Whatever you plant, that soil will also need some attention because new building work of any kind means the ground will be compacted, and that's no good for planting into directly.
If you can post a photo of the site itself, that will help. It's also worth seeing what else grows well in and around your area, as that can help with choices
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
UK actually! So the 'worst heat' won't be too crazy most of the time, but as you know (says you're in scotland) it can certainly get to 30+ on maybe 10 days/year. Also won't usually get bitter cold, -5 is the lowest I've seen in the last 15 years..
Anyway the main situation I would love to end up with might be better expressed in photos, you're right. Here.
As you can see, the patio ends very close to the wooden fence. About 40cm.
And, we have neighbours that indeed can see into our garden.
The solution, well, this seems ideal. A tree that:
1/ can be planted "under" the patio (I was hoping to dig the patio up, then re-lay it once the tree roots are in)
2/ Grows not-too-high - 4m max ideally
3/ Grows wide, so I don't have to plant too many trees right next to each other.
4/ Is well-behaved - doesn't upturn my patio by pushing aboveground.
Makes sense? I was thinking purchasing some early adult trees (2m ones?) to get a head start, and perhaps plant them slightly deeper than normal so any "upward expansion" of the roots wouldn't immediately ruin the patio?
The main questions:
1/ How do I get the watering right roots under patio get no rainwater - should I lay down some automated irrigation? Or is it going to be fine?
2/ What tree is well behaved as per my points 1-4 above
You're clearly in a different part of the country from me - minus 5 wouldn't be considered cold here, and we rarely get temps that high - even last year in our record breaking summer. Temps aren't recorded in full sun, so we might get thirty in full sun, but that's rare. We still got rain too, we don't get the weeks of drought that the south and south east of England gets
What are the shrubs etc already along the fence? You'd probably have to remove those before you do anything. They'll have an effect on what you plant - competition for moisture in particular.
If you want to plant where the patio is, you'll need to lift the paving, prep the soil very, very thoroughly, and then leave an adequate space around anything you plant for watering and mulching. You can't put the paving back over the root systems or you'll compromise the trees. Eventually, when they're properly settled [ a couple of years] and thriving, you can always add some ground cover, perennials/ bulbs etc.
Buying larger trees is never a good idea unless you're experienced enough to get them established, and make sure they have the right aftercare. They need correct staking too.
You would never plant trees deeper than they are in the pot they come in. That will cause them to fail completely, especially in winter conditions as wet soil around the base will cause rot. They need moisture but they need drainage too.
Watering is vital to get a tree established, especially as you're clearly in a hotter part of the country, and you wouldn't buy/plant them at this time of year, as it's even harder to achieve a good result. We can do it here because we get regular enough rainfall, so it's much easier, but autumn is really the best time for shrub and tree planting, as it's cooler and wetter, and therefore less stressful.
Trees that might suit are things like Amelanchier, The weeping ornamental pear - Pyrus salicifolia pendula, and even things like Sambucus [Elder] . There are various types of elder, and they can be pruned and shaped. If you want evergreens, that isn't so easy.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Hertfordshire
So the shrubs, yes they can go. So assuming Pyrus salicifolia Pendula, why not pave over it, assuming I don't actually have paving touch the tree but with a bit of give, around it?
Other than water (which can be solved, IMO), what benefit does open air above the soil have?
And if I don't actually put paving over said tree, what's the minimum space around the tree I can use? If the trunk is (say) 15cm diameter, is 35cm away enough? (so a 1m diameter circle as measured from the center of the tree?)
My planting would probably be in october, yes!
I would create a sensible opening in the slabs and make sure the soil is reasonable and isn't compacted. 1x1m or preferably more would be ideal. Put if back against the fence. That's not space you will tend to use anyway. If there is soft ground on the other side of the fence, the tree roots will exploit that.
If you make the opening too small the tree will struggle because air and water aren't getting to the roots. The tree trunk will thicken in time and push the paving out of the way. The roots, searching for air and water, will make the paving buckle.
Can I see a drain cover? Might want to check that and avoid planting too close to the drainage run. Most small trees won't cause major issues especially if the drain is more modern (roots only affect drains which are cracked).
By the way I think it would be fine to surround the tree with loose gravel, if you want to keep things simple and make the patio feel larger.
With all your advice i think maybe something like this could work:
- As you can see, flanking the ASHP by trees should not cover a lot of their root system
- Planning to also have a automated irrigation (leaky pipe) going through
- A big PVC (or some plastic type) pipe that carries power/coolant to the device should not be affected by roots.
- As Loxley said, most of the root system can be unimpeded for close to 1x1m around the tree, perhaps a small pizza-slice taken out.
I know this is all a bit finnicky but as city dwellers we have a super small garden so trying to squeeze the most out of it while trying not to violate 'gardening rules' that will cause the trees to fail etc etc.
As @Loxley says, the trunks of trees take a long time to expand and grow in width, so they need room to do that, and air is important for roots just as much as drainage etc. Good prep for the soil before planting is really important to get the off to a good start, and the soil under that paving is unlikely to be in good condition. If you then have paving up against them, you're just storing up problems for the future.
If you mean you intend having irrigation for the trees, that isn't always ideal when establishing them. It can be difficult to get right, and trees need thoroughly watered every few days to get them established, not light watering every day. Others may advise on that, as it's not something I've ever used or needed.
Unless you're absolutely set on having a couple of trees for shade, the other option for a small garden is a simple pergola or screen and using climbers over it to create some shade for sitting in. The trees will take quite along time to give reasonable cover too, depending on which direction the aspect is in your photo.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...