re toughness of sweet
peas, I experimented sowing some outside in a big pot in autumn. Most, but not
all, have survived (and the ones that didn't were slugged in autumn)
even in the very low temperatures of last November and without any
protection. They are only about 5 inches but 'bushy'. It will be interesting to
see if they do anything when it warms up. Previous attempts to grow hardy
annuals in the cold has resulted in seedlings that were stunted and never
recovered. However a friend grows his sweet peas like this with much success.
He is a bit further north than me too.
I have some somewhat etiolated seedlings too. Most
are strong enough to be upright but a couple of the November-sown ones are a
bit floppy. It's definitely not a coddling issue. They were sown in heated
propagators but taken out as soon as they germinated. Could be lack of light
although they have been in unheated greenhouse and (slightly warmed but still
cold) area down the side of my house. My edible peas were are being grown under
identical circumstances but don't have the same problem.
I just seem to be blighted
when it comes to sweet pea growing, what with mildew, later on too, but I’m not going to give up. (I do have a few back up plants on order this year, though, too.)
@REMF33 I am unsure whether the description of your attempts & results refer to annuals or the perennials. I understand you have tried some hardy annuals. . I think someone on the thread mentioned that the latter are hardier. It would fit with the fact that they seem to survive all months. My interest is just the perennials.
It can be disappointing when your attempts fail-not just the effort given, but we look forward to, and expect good results.
I hope your 5 inch high bushy ones do well after all your trials & effort.
Annuals and perennials of any plant are different. Clue's in the title Many people sow annual s. peas in autumn, but whether they survive or not comes down to climate and conditions. I've said it hundreds of times that it's rarely worth it for me, because even if they thrive [which isn't always the case] they don't start growing well until May, and by then, the early spring sown ones are at the same stage, and that's a lot less hassle, with no need to keep an eye on them. If you're in a milder area, they can be useful because you can get them out into their final spot earlier
Too much heat and not enough light are the two main problems which cause poor, or weak growth. If sowing in autumn [November really isn't ideal - too late] they need protection from the worst weather -ie rain/sleet/snow but won't cope once temps get down below around minus 8, 9 and 10 for any length of time. If they're sitting in too much cold, wet compost, that also does them no favours, and if they have decent growth, you then have the problem with slugs. That can still be a problem with spring sown ones. They don't need extra heat to germinate - in fact that adds to the problems. You get quick, weak growth which is then vulnerable to anything going, whether it's pests or diseases. They only need reasonable warmth, so that they germinate in around two or three weeks. It's also easy to underestimate how much moisture they need when properly growing away. They need loads of food and water, especially in pots. When it's too hot and dry for a long time, and they're in full sun for too long, they really struggle.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
I could really do with someone telling me the names of the Perennial varieties so I can search. The supplier that I used online last year does not have any Lathyrus red pear this year. I really don't mind which they are as long as they are perenniels.
edited: I misunderstood what had been said, somewhat (and wasn't very clear in my previous post. Insomnia brain!)
re sowing sweet peas the autumn before, my understanding was that if you sow sweet peas at least in autumn you may get hardier and healthier plants that are better able to resist disease. I have a problem with mildew so that is why this is a priority for me. Have to say not convinced that it works though. At any rate, I do not grow hardy annuals in autumn to get earlier flowers.
The seedlings I started off in autumn of 2021 were hardy annuals. I think they were just too cold in the greenhouse. I didn't realize at that point how cold the greenhouse gets, as it was my first winter with it. The sweet peas, peas and broadbeans were fine though. They didn't mind freezing and defrosting at all, apart from a little frost burn on the broadbeans which they recovered from. This year, I have a few trays of hardy annuals that I sowed last autumn that are doing fine. (Apart from the calendula having mildew!) These were somewhere that never goes below 0. I moved them to the greenhouse a few weeks ago but they survived sub zero temperatures and are dongn well. tbh I sowed these because I could and I love sowing seeds. Might not bother this year, though. It's not like it will make me sow less in the coming months!
I would try sowing your annual s.peas a bit earlier @REMF33 - maybe late September or early October. That would give them more chance of getting to a good size before colder weather sets in, and you'd get a chance to pinch them out once or twice too If I do sow in autumn, it really has to be September here for them to have a chance of being sturdy enough.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
They are a decent size, I think, @Fairygirl. And I didn't want them to get too tall in the autumn. My hope was for them to grow slowly and become sturdy. I have been pinching them out. It's just a couple that are floppy. The rest are fine. They are just not perfect There is room for improvement. But they will be ok in the long run. Last year's, which were the first I'd grown this way, were the best I have grown. Possibly partly though because they went in a raised bed rather than a very large pot.
It's the January sown ones that are less good. Not enough light, I suppose. But they will probably be ok in the end.
If you sow in autumn, also make sure they have enough root depth. I use those cardboard coffee cups as my daughter buys me a coffee now and again. They just give an extra inch in depth over a standard small pot. The 3 inch plastic pots are fine for spring sowing as they're going to get planted out more quickly, but a bit of extra depth for autumn and over winter, as well as for a bit of growth when things warm up, just helps a bit. I do 3 or 4 seeds to a 3 inch pot
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Posts
re toughness of sweet peas, I experimented sowing some outside in a big pot in autumn. Most, but not all, have survived (and the ones that didn't were slugged in autumn) even in the very low temperatures of last November and without any protection. They are only about 5 inches but 'bushy'. It will be interesting to see if they do anything when it warms up. Previous attempts to grow hardy annuals in the cold has resulted in seedlings that were stunted and never recovered. However a friend grows his sweet peas like this with much success. He is a bit further north than me too.
I have some somewhat etiolated seedlings too. Most are strong enough to be upright but a couple of the November-sown ones are a bit floppy. It's definitely not a coddling issue. They were sown in heated propagators but taken out as soon as they germinated. Could be lack of light although they have been in unheated greenhouse and (slightly warmed but still cold) area down the side of my house. My edible peas were are being grown under identical circumstances but don't have the same problem.
I just seem to be blighted when it comes to sweet pea growing, what with mildew, later on too, but I’m not going to give up. (I do have a few back up plants on order this year, though, too.)
I am unsure whether the description of your attempts & results refer to annuals or the perennials. I understand you have tried some hardy annuals. . I think someone on the thread mentioned that the latter are hardier. It would fit with the fact that they seem to survive all months. My interest is just the perennials.
It can be disappointing when your attempts fail-not just the effort given, but we look forward to, and expect good results.
I hope your 5 inch high bushy ones do well after all your trials & effort.
Many people sow annual s. peas in autumn, but whether they survive or not comes down to climate and conditions.
I've said it hundreds of times that it's rarely worth it for me, because even if they thrive [which isn't always the case] they don't start growing well until May, and by then, the early spring sown ones are at the same stage, and that's a lot less hassle, with no need to keep an eye on them. If you're in a milder area, they can be useful because you can get them out into their final spot earlier
Too much heat and not enough light are the two main problems which cause poor, or weak growth. If sowing in autumn [November really isn't ideal - too late] they need protection from the worst weather -ie rain/sleet/snow but won't cope once temps get down below around minus 8, 9 and 10 for any length of time.
If they're sitting in too much cold, wet compost, that also does them no favours, and if they have decent growth, you then have the problem with slugs. That can still be a problem with spring sown ones.
They don't need extra heat to germinate - in fact that adds to the problems. You get quick, weak growth which is then vulnerable to anything going, whether it's pests or diseases. They only need reasonable warmth, so that they germinate in around two or three weeks.
It's also easy to underestimate how much moisture they need when properly growing away. They need loads of food and water, especially in pots. When it's too hot and dry for a long time, and they're in full sun for too long, they really struggle.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
https://www.victoriananursery.co.uk/Perennial-Sweet-Pea/
Thompson & Morgan, Fothergills and DT Browns sell seed, but I think they're mixed too.
This company sells individual colours
https://www.naturescape.co.uk/product/pink-everlasting-sweet-pea/
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
re sowing sweet peas the autumn before, my understanding was that if you sow sweet peas at least in autumn you may get hardier and healthier plants that are better able to resist disease. I have a problem with mildew so that is why this is a priority for me. Have to say not convinced that it works though. At any rate, I do not grow hardy annuals in autumn to get earlier flowers.
re perennial sweet peas: https://www.rpsweetpeas.com/shop/?yith_wcan=1&filter_flower-type=perennial-species&query_type_flower-type=and
Pity they are not scented.
The seedlings I started off in autumn of 2021 were hardy annuals.
I think they were just too cold in the greenhouse. I didn't realize at that point how cold the greenhouse gets, as it was my first winter with it. The sweet peas, peas and broadbeans were fine though. They didn't mind freezing and defrosting at all, apart from a little frost burn on the broadbeans which they recovered from.
This year, I have a few trays of hardy annuals that I sowed last autumn that are doing fine. (Apart from the calendula having mildew!) These were somewhere that never goes below 0. I moved them to the greenhouse a few weeks ago but they survived sub zero temperatures and are dongn well. tbh I sowed these because I could and I love sowing seeds. Might not bother this year, though. It's not like it will make me sow less in the coming months!
If I do sow in autumn, it really has to be September here for them to have a chance of being sturdy enough.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
It's just a couple that are floppy. The rest are fine. They are just not perfect
It's the January sown ones that are less good. Not enough light, I suppose. But they will probably be ok in the end.
The 3 inch plastic pots are fine for spring sowing as they're going to get planted out more quickly, but a bit of extra depth for autumn and over winter, as well as for a bit of growth when things warm up, just helps a bit. I do 3 or 4 seeds to a 3 inch pot
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...