Firstly apologies for late reply, been super busy.
Awww thank you, thank you, thank you for wonderful thoughts, ideas and suggestions, its been extremely helpful. I guess its easy to be carried away when designing an ideal area (nothing wrong with that) but then a dose of reality kicks in. That's why I am so grateful that you share your knowledge and experiences, its of great value to me. Thank you so much.
I mentioned before the constraints I had, 1 - being my back issue and 2 - the debris from trees from both sides of the fence. So i didn't want to have beds, only narrow bed to follow the path. Hence the planters, the number of planters I am not sure yet. Yes a veggie planter may appear narrow but thats just my drawing, i mainly plan to plant root vegetables, carrots, beets, garlic....etc. The other reason for planters, is ground water, my previous Laurel sucked up all the water and same for the eucalyptus tree next door. I may still plant some plants through the membrane around the center of the plot. Oddly the eucalyptus tree is not that bad in terms of sucking up water, next door has various plants near the tree all doing fine, when I had the Laurel, the ground was very dry not even weeds would grow. Since I had the Lauren removed suddenly weeds are popping up. Never thought I would be happy to see the weeds.
Need to most certainly consider ground cover, be it gravel or bark both will need a degree of maintenance. As I have a relatively large open space 10x10m, wanted to use it to sit and relax both for myself and family/friends, with a bench or two. Low maintenance (which i believe is a misnomer in some cases), not busy and open aspect. I have a patio with about 90 pots in the summer which keeps me busy, so would be nice to go to the 'plot' to just relax and listen to natures sounds, well thats the vision, mental concept I have.
Yes debris from the eucalyptus is an issue, the conifers are right at the back on both corners of the garden both belonging to respect next doors. I use a leaf blower to keep the garden tidy. The tree is mid garden, not over the plot, but still get leaves and bark falling all the over. Debris fron the conifer is right at the back near the concrete area, not much fall off on the plot. Gravel I was thinking would be easier, as its a harder surface, i can use the blower but as pointed out when it rains, especially prolonged rain, its will be tough to clean. Bark would be easier since the debris will be incorporated. So was thinking of a compromise. I can have bark on both sides of the plot and the center path, wider then I had planned with gravel (with even spaced pavers), from lawn to bench. Was planning on using membrane for the whole area regardless of bark or gravel.
One of most important things I have learned, thanks @Fairygirl is sunlight. I knew its was important but thought soil is the critical element. Now I think sunlight and soil are both critical. On reflection I agree, the plot perhaps does not get the full 6 hours of sun. I am now on the case and tracking the light during the day. Of course last thing i want is to plant and then discover the plants ever not right for the light conditions. On the patio which I have a wide range of plants from ferns, hostas but then also lavender, rose (whiter shade of pale), clematis (sally), all sun loving plants but still do great on the patio which is shaded. Goes to show resilience of plants, I guess
Yes I will tinker with my plan, move things around, visualize different aspects, its great fun. I will most certainly take bite size chunks, will not just dive into it.
I will go back and read again your wonderful post, lots to learn and disgust, thanks a million, what a great community we have here. Very lucky to have such mentors.
Sharing the pictures of the mighty Eucalyptus, and me tracking the sun, I know its just past mid winter but I want to form a habit of sun watching so i have better idea of light on the plot. The sun picture was taken 10:15 yesterday morning, see dappled and full sun on the plot and no sun in half the garden, lots to learn.
Remember that the hours of sun are calculated in summer conditions - not this time of year. I'm sure I mentioned that. When you consider that the sun is low in the sky just now, that sun angling in could be very different in summer when it has to clear the top of that eucalyptus, so ironically - you may actually have less in summer. Positioning of your containers is important for your veg too. That tree will also make the surrounding soil very dry, so you have to bear that in mind when deciding on your plants if you plant into the ground. Your leaf blower is needed regardless of the medium you use, as you've already discovered. Unfortunately, there's very little you can do about the effects of the tree, other than hope there's a decent storm... The list of plants you say you have on the patio are not strictly sun lovers, but that's where the variety of plant comes into it, and yes - many plants are adaptable to some extent. There's also a big difference when growing in containers as opposed to growing in the ground I forgot to ask you about the area at the back - you'd said at the start that it was concrete. Have you thought of screening that off and having something planted along it, and maybe a storage area or similar for it? The one bit of advice I'd give you re the raised beds and your back. Make then high enough. I see it all the time - "have a raised bed for your bad back " and the beds are about 18 inches high. Useless. I also have back problems, and unless they're a decent height for you to work at [necessary if it 's veg] for a length of time, it's painful. Make sure you use a good soil based medium too - not just compost. All good fun in the planning though
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Winter is a good time to get to know your garden and start planning @dbhattuk, when the sun is low and the garden is in its least attractive state. You are doing the right thing taking your time and working in sections. That is the largest eucalyptus I have seen in a domestic garden, it's magnificent, I find the bark as attractive as the leaves. Looking forward to seeing your progress, in your own time!
What are the new trees planted in the grass? I am guessing fruit trees. When they are a few years old they will also bring a lot more shade and dropped leaves to your garden, even if they are dwarf. What a splendid eucalyptus, I love the bark on the trunk, no idea what your neighbours are growing near it, might be worth asking them, and how much work it takes them to keep anything growing there. I couldn't grow veg, anywhere near the one I had in my garden and that was minuscule compared to your neighbour's. I can tell from your entries just how excited you are at the prospect of creating your new garden. It can be very confusing to start with, and each gardener giving suggestions will be different so it is important to take a breath every so often, sit down with a cuppa, look at the space you have, go and stand in the space, and ask your self what you personally want from it. Then double the amount of space for paths, there is nothing worse than a garden which you cannot walk around easily. Paths need to be wide enough to push a wheelbarrow etc. so at least 2 metres wide, narrow sharp corners are a nightmare. Patience, patience, patience. Maybe try drawing a "to scale plan" of your plot to show exactly how big each bed and path would need to be. Get a sheet of graph paper, a tape measure and a friend to help, it would be fun. Calm down, have another cuppa and take your time. It will be years before you get it right anyway. Most importantly, have fun and enjoy. With a garden the size of yours there will not be much time for sitting down to admire, there will always be something that needs doing.
@Joyce Goldenlily, awww thank you for the post. Appricate your comments, really great getting advice and suggestions from the community. Peoples sharing their experiences and practical knowledge is so vital.
Yes the plants you see are fruit trees, have a pear on the left, a cherry and apple on the right. These were planted bare root 2 years ago. They are all dwarf root stock, plan to keep them compact with appropriate pruning. They cherry is amazing, spherical in shape. The pear and apple have not really established yet, the drought we had last year didn't help. These were planted prior to me thinking about the back plot, so I may need to move or remove them.
Indeed the eucalyptus is majestic, its a pain with all debris falling off it but does look amazing. Everyone that visits the garden, the first comment is always the eucalyptus tree, its a wow factor. The lady next door is not that interested in gardening, her husband who looked after the garden passed away sadly. Its totally neglected, once I have sorted my garden out, I will offer to help to clear the jungle. Next to the eucalyptus is a large fig tree, plus an apple and a shrub on the other side. For me the clue is the lawn, if grass does not grow near the tree then water is an issue. Both mine and next door have lawn right up to the tree without a problem. So yes eucalyptus can suck up lots of water but not enough to cause a problem. This is the opposite issue I had with my Laurel tree, the ground was extremely dry, nothing would grow near it.
I do indeed plan to take my time. The original diagram was a starter for ten. By the time the planning is finished, it may look radically different. Yes lots of cuppas . Lots to consider, and with the help and support I am getting from this community makes it a valuable venture for me. Already my thinking has changed somewhat with the insight I am getting here.
Thank you again for your comments, much appreciated.
If the fig tree in your neighbors' garden fruits, I am totally green with envy. I love freshly picked figs straight from the tree. We had two fig trees in our garden when I was a child in the Channel Islands. My neighbour here has a venerable old fig tree that produces wonderful, big fat juicy figs every year which they never pick because they do not like them. I have never been offered the opportunity to have any of them, they are left for the wasps so I suppose someone benefits from them. I have to admit, I am very surprised and puzzled by the fact that grass grows under the eucalyptus and the fig tree. This is not normal unless there is some kind of drainage/sewerage pipe running underneath them, or the roots have gone down deep enough to find some kind of natural water course/ soak away. What I can see in your picture look like very spindly weeds but not what I would call a lush green lawn. Think very carefully before planting any precious plants anywhere near the base of the tree. Think about eucalyptus forests and what the ground looks like around them. Usually, it is barren. If you decide to move your fruit trees in the future that will create a whole new subject to be considered and discussed!When? How? Where? etc. etc.
hi @Joyce Goldenlily, i just went and had a look, okay the lawn is about 3ft away from the tree. With all the bark and leaves nothing grows right under the tree, i can only assume deep roots. The Laurel on the other hand roots can be seen on the surface spanning at 10-15 feet from the tree. The figs are great, sadly the tree is not pruned, so very leafy, lots of energy goes towards the leaves and not the fruit, still very nice though. I always get a large bag of figs from her, every autumn.
I in fact took some cutting from the tree, see pic, they came out so well but sadly died due to my mistake. So i am gonna try again this year, if you want a cutting or two, happy to send you some.
Thank you very much for the offer of some fig cuttings. It is very kind of you. As it happens I have a rooted cutting that I took from my neighbour's tree when he cut his fig tree back to ground level a couple of years ago. I now have to find somewhere sensible, in my garden, where I can plant it.
If you stand with your back against the trunk of the eucalyptus, look up, walk away from the trunk until you are standing under the far outer edge of the tree canopy, and put a stake in next to your feet, that will give you the approximate distance of the trees' root spread. I think you will be surprised at how far away from the trunk it is.
Laurels are a different kettle of fish because they carry branches and foliage right down to the soil level which creates a dustbowl effect under them. They grow as a spreading multi-stemmed tree rather than single-stemmed trees like eucalyptus. I had a laurel hedge in one garden which when I had it cut back revealed a much larger area of the garden hidden under it than I had ever realized was there. Because eucalyptus grows as a very tall single trunk they give the illusion of plenty of space under and around them. Beware of the illusion.
You are at the beginning of such an exciting and steep learning curve which will probably keep you going for the rest of your life. Read, watch, listen, learn and enjoy. There will be joy, tears, frustration, excitement, amazement, and mistakes aplenty.
@Joyce Goldenlily, thank you yet again for sharing your knowledge, love your tips and ideas. Yes gonna try that walk away from the tree trick. Indeed, when i had the laurel, the plot area was dark and didn't look that big. Now its gone, looks far bigger, seems i have third of a garden reclaimed. thanks for the support and encouragement.
Posts
Firstly apologies for late reply, been super busy.
Awww thank you, thank you, thank you for wonderful thoughts, ideas and suggestions, its been extremely helpful. I guess its easy to be carried away when designing an ideal area (nothing wrong with that) but then a dose of reality kicks in. That's why I am so grateful that you share your knowledge and experiences, its of great value to me. Thank you so much.
I mentioned before the constraints I had, 1 - being my back issue and 2 - the debris from trees from both sides of the fence. So i didn't want to have beds, only narrow bed to follow the path. Hence the planters, the number of planters I am not sure yet. Yes a veggie planter may appear narrow but thats just my drawing, i mainly plan to plant root vegetables, carrots, beets, garlic....etc. The other reason for planters, is ground water, my previous Laurel sucked up all the water and same for the eucalyptus tree next door. I may still plant some plants through the membrane around the center of the plot. Oddly the eucalyptus tree is not that bad in terms of sucking up water, next door has various plants near the tree all doing fine, when I had the Laurel, the ground was very dry not even weeds would grow. Since I had the Lauren removed suddenly weeds are popping up. Never thought I would be happy to see the weeds.
Need to most certainly consider ground cover, be it gravel or bark both will need a degree of maintenance. As I have a relatively large open space 10x10m, wanted to use it to sit and relax both for myself and family/friends, with a bench or two. Low maintenance (which i believe is a misnomer in some cases), not busy and open aspect. I have a patio with about 90 pots in the summer which keeps me busy, so would be nice to go to the 'plot' to just relax and listen to natures sounds, well thats the vision, mental concept I have.
Yes debris from the eucalyptus is an issue, the conifers are right at the back on both corners of the garden both belonging to respect next doors. I use a leaf blower to keep the garden tidy. The tree is mid garden, not over the plot, but still get leaves and bark falling all the over. Debris fron the conifer is right at the back near the concrete area, not much fall off on the plot. Gravel I was thinking would be easier, as its a harder surface, i can use the blower but as pointed out when it rains, especially prolonged rain, its will be tough to clean. Bark would be easier since the debris will be incorporated. So was thinking of a compromise. I can have bark on both sides of the plot and the center path, wider then I had planned with gravel (with even spaced pavers), from lawn to bench. Was planning on using membrane for the whole area regardless of bark or gravel.
One of most important things I have learned, thanks @Fairygirl is sunlight. I knew its was important but thought soil is the critical element. Now I think sunlight and soil are both critical. On reflection I agree, the plot perhaps does not get the full 6 hours of sun. I am now on the case and tracking the light during the day. Of course last thing i want is to plant and then discover the plants ever not right for the light conditions. On the patio which I have a wide range of plants from ferns, hostas but then also lavender, rose (whiter shade of pale), clematis (sally), all sun loving plants but still do great on the patio which is shaded. Goes to show resilience of plants, I guess
Yes I will tinker with my plan, move things around, visualize different aspects, its great fun. I will most certainly take bite size chunks, will not just dive into it.
I will go back and read again your wonderful post, lots to learn and disgust, thanks a million, what a great community we have here. Very lucky to have such mentors.
Sharing the pictures of the mighty Eucalyptus, and me tracking the sun, I know its just past mid winter but I want to form a habit of sun watching so i have better idea of light on the plot. The sun picture was taken 10:15 yesterday morning, see dappled and full sun on the plot and no sun in half the garden, lots to learn.
Thanks
Dilip
Your leaf blower is needed regardless of the medium you use, as you've already discovered. Unfortunately, there's very little you can do about the effects of the tree, other than hope there's a decent storm...
The list of plants you say you have on the patio are not strictly sun lovers, but that's where the variety of plant comes into it, and yes - many plants are adaptable to some extent. There's also a big difference when growing in containers as opposed to growing in the ground
I forgot to ask you about the area at the back - you'd said at the start that it was concrete. Have you thought of screening that off and having something planted along it, and maybe a storage area or similar for it?
The one bit of advice I'd give you re the raised beds and your back. Make then high enough. I see it all the time - "have a raised bed for your bad back " and the beds are about 18 inches high. Useless. I also have back problems, and unless they're a decent height for you to work at [necessary if it 's veg] for a length of time, it's painful. Make sure you use a good soil based medium too - not just compost.
All good fun in the planning though
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
What a splendid eucalyptus, I love the bark on the trunk, no idea what your neighbours are growing near it, might be worth asking them, and how much work it takes them to keep anything growing there. I couldn't grow veg, anywhere near the one I had in my garden and that was minuscule compared to your neighbour's.
I can tell from your entries just how excited you are at the prospect of creating your new garden. It can be very confusing to start with, and each gardener giving suggestions will be different so it is important to take a breath every so often, sit down with a cuppa, look at the space you have, go and stand in the space, and ask your self what you personally want from it. Then double the amount of space for paths, there is nothing worse than a garden which you cannot walk around easily. Paths need to be wide enough to push a wheelbarrow etc. so at least 2 metres wide, narrow sharp corners are a nightmare. Patience, patience, patience. Maybe try drawing a "to scale plan" of your plot to show exactly how big each bed and path would need to be. Get a sheet of graph paper, a tape measure and a friend to help, it would be fun.
Calm down, have another cuppa and take your time. It will be years before you get it right anyway. Most importantly, have fun and enjoy. With a garden the size of yours there will not be much time for sitting down to admire, there will always be something that needs doing.
Yes the plants you see are fruit trees, have a pear on the left, a cherry and apple on the right. These were planted bare root 2 years ago. They are all dwarf root stock, plan to keep them compact with appropriate pruning. They cherry is amazing, spherical in shape. The pear and apple have not really established yet, the drought we had last year didn't help. These were planted prior to me thinking about the back plot, so I may need to move or remove them.
Indeed the eucalyptus is majestic, its a pain with all debris falling off it but does look amazing. Everyone that visits the garden, the first comment is always the eucalyptus tree, its a wow factor. The lady next door is not that interested in gardening, her husband who looked after the garden passed away sadly. Its totally neglected, once I have sorted my garden out, I will offer to help to clear the jungle. Next to the eucalyptus is a large fig tree, plus an apple and a shrub on the other side. For me the clue is the lawn, if grass does not grow near the tree then water is an issue. Both mine and next door have lawn right up to the tree without a problem. So yes eucalyptus can suck up lots of water but not enough to cause a problem. This is the opposite issue I had with my Laurel tree, the ground was extremely dry, nothing would grow near it.
I do indeed plan to take my time. The original diagram was a starter for ten. By the time the planning is finished, it may look radically different. Yes lots of cuppas
Thank you again for your comments, much appreciated.
Dilip
I have to admit, I am very surprised and puzzled by the fact that grass grows under the eucalyptus and the fig tree. This is not normal unless there is some kind of drainage/sewerage pipe running underneath them, or the roots have gone down deep enough to find some kind of natural water course/ soak away. What I can see in your picture look like very spindly weeds but not what I would call a lush green lawn. Think very carefully before planting any precious plants anywhere near the base of the tree. Think about eucalyptus forests and what the ground looks like around them. Usually, it is barren.
If you decide to move your fruit trees in the future that will create a whole new subject to be considered and discussed!When? How? Where? etc. etc.
I in fact took some cutting from the tree, see pic, they came out so well but sadly died due to my mistake. So i am gonna try again this year, if you want a cutting or two, happy to send you some.
If you stand with your back against the trunk of the eucalyptus, look up, walk away from the trunk until you are standing under the far outer edge of the tree canopy, and put a stake in next to your feet, that will give you the approximate distance of the trees' root spread. I think you will be surprised at how far away from the trunk it is.
Laurels are a different kettle of fish because they carry branches and foliage right down to the soil level which creates a dustbowl effect under them. They grow as a spreading multi-stemmed tree rather than single-stemmed trees like eucalyptus. I had a laurel hedge in one garden which when I had it cut back revealed a much larger area of the garden hidden under it than I had ever realized was there. Because eucalyptus grows as a very tall single trunk they give the illusion of plenty of space under and around them.
Beware of the illusion.
You are at the beginning of such an exciting and steep learning curve which will probably keep you going for the rest of your life. Read, watch, listen, learn and enjoy. There will be joy, tears, frustration, excitement, amazement, and mistakes aplenty.