autumn sowing advice

REMF33 · October 2022

I have sown some hardy annuals which now mostly have several sets of leaves (calendula, aubretia, scabious, hollyhock, Limnanthes douglasii and delphinium.) I had a go at this last year and didn't even get this far (possibly sowed too late and they were in an unheated greenhouse for the duration). But what next? They are clearly too small and tender to be planted out in the ground. Put in a cold frame? If so, and assuming they survive, when should they be planted out next year?

msqingxiao · October 2022

no expert here but hope someone elsewhere can chip in too... think the general advice would be to put them in the cold frame. they won't grow much over the winter but should grow a bit more next spring. I'd plant them out when they are big enough so that slugs and snails can't swallow them overnight...

Fairygirl · October 2022

Yes - they'll need protection over winter @REMF33 . Even with a couple of sets of true leaves at this stage, they would need that. They won't really grow much now, and even if you're in a warmer area, and they grow a bit more, it wouldn't be sensible to put them outside completely unless you were very careful about acclimatising them.
Were they sown outside, or in your greenhouse this time?
They're all hardy plants, but unless they're really filling a three inch pot or more, they'd be very vulnerable, so they just need somewhere sheltered - a cold frame with the lid opened is ideal, or even just against a wall or under a table or similar. That will depend on your climate and how sheltered your site is.
Even in spring, you'll need to be careful as to when you plant out - slugs/snails will annihilate many of them, as @msqingxiao says. If in doubt, wait, and pot them on, then plant out in late spring/early summer

REMF33 · October 2022

They were sown in and are still in my lean to - unheated, glass roofed area down the side of the house.
I think I will have to see how things go. I don't think they are ready to be hardened off, even to go into a coldframe, and if it does get much colder soon, and they don't grow much more, maybe not at all.
They could stay in the lean to, but part of the point of doing this is to grow plants that can be planted out sooner, I thought.
The ones I started off in the greenhouse last year did nothing. Some came up (some didn't), some died and the rest never grew more than a few millimetres!
But autumn sowing is a thing, if numerous websites can be trusted, so there must be a way to do it that works. Should I have sown them earlier? (The packets said it was ok to sow when I did - the beginning of this month.)
I wasn't going to bother, after last year's failure, but saw lots of calendula in flower when on holiday in Norfolk in mid April, this year, when I had only just sown mine, and thought they must have been autumn sown (or had self seeded...)

REMF33 · October 2022

P.s. my peas, sweet peas and broadbeans did fine in my unheated greenhouse, having been sown in November. (Wish I had noted down where I started them off!) I suppose they are more hardy? I know of someone who sows sweetpeas in a huge container (dustbins!) October out doors and keeps them outside all winter. (Some fleece if very cold.) I am experimenting with doing this too (in a smaller but still large container), as well as growing in root trainers in the greenhouse.

Fairygirl · October 2022

If I sow sweet peas in autumn [which I don't often do] it has to be September, or early October, to get them to a decent stage for overwintering. They're very tough, and only need basic shelter, even here. The reason I don't often do it is because spring sown ones usually catch up. I've actually done some this year, because there's no doubt our climate here has changed, but it's always an experiment. I've been collecting seed more too, so I can afford to do that, as it's cheap! The ones I sowed in September are nice little bushy plants

Lack of light is also a factor when sowing and growing on, so that needs taken into account. We have a lot less daylight here through winter than in the south, so early sowing [ie February] can be pointless. March is better.
It can certainly be useful to take note of when you sow, and also your general weather and temps. That also varies enormously depending on location. I've often said on the forum that the info on seed packets can be misleading because it doesn't allow for those variations. I had loads of failures for years when I started because of that.

In short, if you've started them in a covered area, it's probably best to just leave them there and see how they go. I expect those calendula may have been self sown, but it often comes down to those climactic conditions and location.

REMF33 · October 2022

I sowed my sweet peas in November last year. They were too big for their trainers (:) ) before they were ready to go out, so it makes sense for me to sow at least this late.
My motivation for winter sowing sweet peas, was, unlike with the calendulas etc, not to have them flower early, but more an attempt to raise robust, strong plants, as I always have mildew issues. I still had mildew issues with these ones (the ones that survived not being watered by husband while I was a away for a week!) but they were lovely and very healthy for a good while. Regarding the spring sown ones, I can still see a flower on my patio, so staggering flowering has turned out to be an added benefit to doing both winter and spring sowings.
I have a spread sheet itemizing when any seeds I sow were sown, how many, what container, what location, when and how many germinated (the how many only if feasible) when pricked out, growing on conditions, plus a notes column. I just didn't put the germination/sowing location on it for the sweet peas, this year, for some reason. I probably started them off indoors, though.
I may move my calendulas etc. to the greenhouse or a cold frame when/if they get bigger etc.

Fairygirl · October 2022

If you tend to get mildew on a lot of plants, it's worth trying the s. peas in a cooler, shadier site. Even here, they can struggle in hotter weather, and they need loads of food and water to do well. I grow my whites/creams in shadier positions. Giving them enough airflow is also important if they're in a hotter site.
I don't prick mine out. They get sown at 3 or 4 to a 3inch pot, then the whole pot is planted out. Most of mine are grown in large pots because even decent sized plants just get eaten by slugs in the ground. I have to experiment with different spots for them in the ground.
I also started using coffee cups for mine a few years ago. My daughter used to buy me a coffee when she got a McDonalds. They're excellent - 3 or 4 to each one, and they have more depth for the deep roots. Also - you can write the names on the outside so it saves labels

If yours were getting too big, they probably needed pinching out. It can certainly be a problem if they grow too well at this time of year, but nipping the tops out creates some side growth, and means a sturdier plant when you come to putting them outside in spring. It also helps not to use a commercial compost at this time of year. That's fine in spring when you want them to keep growing, but in autumn you want them to stay small and bushy. Old compost will do, or some semi decent garden soil. Seed compost is usually recommended, but again- it's not really necessary if you have an alternative.

Hope that's of some use - apologies if I'm giving info you're already aware of

REMF33 · October 2022

Hmm. I have done a lot of research and am doing everything as recommended, I think - watering and feeding regularly, not over crowd. I have grown peas and sweet peas in full sun and in a semi-sunny area. I have grown in pots and in the ground. Nothing seems to help.
My peas didn't work this year at all in the semi-sunny/shaded area, but various neighbours had the same problem. I don't think they had mildew.
My marigolds get mildew too, but it doesn't necessarily kill them off. Courgettes get it wherever I grow them.

re sweet peas, I grow two to a root trainer, then plant them out so no pricking out here either. I also grow some in you tubes which biodegrade, so you plant the whole thing.

I do pinch out. But maybe I should do so more. I also have long pea pots from Sarah Raven to pot them on into in the spring if necessary. They were fine though. Soe went out in early april and were really lovely/ (Wish the rest had - then they would have survived my week away with husband in charge ; ) )

The one thing I learnt this year is that in a deep raised bed is much better than in a very big pot.

punkdoc · October 2022

I find a really rich, meaty compost to plant them out into, helps with moisture retention and prevents mildew.
I also water and feed heavily.

Fairygirl · October 2022

Sorry - I missed your last post @REMF33, but @punkdoc is right - they need a rich soil, and lots of food and water. It's easier in the ground to achieve that. Manure is a good base too - whether in the ground or in pots.
Most of mine are potted, and I use turf in the base to help retain moisture, then manure if I have it, and decent compost. I also use slow release food at that point, and then tomato food later on - around end of July onwards, when they've used up all the nutrients in the pot. Even on decent wet days, I check them because it won't necessarily get through the foliage once they're growing well. There aren't many days I don't water. The type of pot makes a difference - terracotta is porous, so glazed or similar is better. My terra pots are all PVA-d to seal them, which helps.
I don't pot on from the pots they're sown in, but timing is key. They can often just sulk if put out too soon, which is why the spring sown ones tend to catch up with autumn ones. They don't really start growing well until mid/end of May here. The bonus of that is that they're still flowering now. It's usually the rough weather through October that sees them off.
In the ground - whether directly in a border, or in a raised bed, is always going to be easier. Directly is no use for me, but I've used one little raised bed for a couple of years which works very well. Just gives them enough room to get more moisture etc, but fewer mollusc problems than in the heavier soil of the borders.
If you're using root trainers, try just one seed each. They'll use up the nutrients very quickly otherwise.

autumn sowing advice

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