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Tea Rose question

sprengerjansprengerjan Posts: 30
in Plants
I have this beautiful tea rose. However I've noticed a couple of stems which are much more thorny than the other stems, and the roses on these are smaller. The first two pix are of the rose at its best, the others show the smaller rose and the thorny stem. Any ideas?
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  • GardenerSuzeGardenerSuze Posts: 5,692
    I wonder if it is something to do with the grafting or rootstock. I am sure someone will be able to help.
    I have worked as a Gardener for 24 years. My latest garden is a new build garden on heavy clay.
  • Lizzie27Lizzie27 Posts: 12,494
    @sprengerjan, you may get more responses if you re-post on the main Roses thread.

    The thornier branches decidedly look very strange but I'm afraid I don't know the answer.
    North East Somerset - Clay soil over limestone
  • Desi_in_LondonDesi_in_London Posts: 731
    They look like suckers ( root stock vs the main rose ) to me ,  but perhaps @Nollie or @Mr. Vine Eye or @Tack can confirm ?
    Kindness is always the right choice.
  • sprengerjansprengerjan Posts: 30
    Lizzie27 said:
    @sprengerjan, you may get more responses if you re-post on the main Roses thread.

    The thornier branches decidedly look very strange but I'm afraid I don't know the answer.

    Thanks, I hadn't realized there was a Roses hread.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    No, pretty sure thats not a sucker or anything to worry about 😊 

    Hybrid Tea roses such as you have can be notoriously thorny and sometimes newer, vigorous canes are more thorny than the earlier ones. The thorns are the same shape - wide base and pointing outwards rather than hooked (the fact they are fatter and green is not important, they will shrink and go brown with age). I can’t see any foliage on the super thorny cane, but if it is glossy and very like the other leaves of the ‘normal’ canes that also says ‘not a sucker’. Roses in the UK and Europe are almost exclusively grafted onto a strong wild rose rootstock called Laxa, which has very different, matte light green leaves, thin stems, few thorns and white flowers.

    Typically, blooms later in the season are smaller, plus they can be smaller in hot weather so your last picture of the smaller rose is normal too!
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • Desi_in_LondonDesi_in_London Posts: 731
    Thank you @Nollie -- for some reason in my mind i had remembered it upside down that sucker shoots were generally  thornier < albeit that was based on something growing the other side of the world in my grandmother's garden so who knows what that rootstock was)
    Kindness is always the right choice.
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    Well @Desi_in_London if your grandmother is/was in Australia that would explain remembering it upside down 😆 Rootstocks in the US and maybe Aus are Huey (incidentally a red rose) and Multiflora but odd ones do pop up now and then on imported roses.
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • sprengerjansprengerjan Posts: 30
    Nollie said:
    No, pretty sure thats not a sucker or anything to worry about 😊 

    Hybrid Tea roses such as you have can be notoriously thorny and sometimes newer, vigorous canes are more thorny than the earlier ones. The thorns are the same shape - wide base and pointing outwards rather than hooked (the fact they are fatter and green is not important, they will shrink and go brown with age). I can’t see any foliage on the super thorny cane, but if it is glossy and very like the other leaves of the ‘normal’ canes that also says ‘not a sucker’. Roses in the UK and Europe are almost exclusively grafted onto a strong wild rose rootstock called Laxa, which has very different, matte light green leaves, thin stems, few thorns and white flowers.

    Typically, blooms later in the season are smaller, plus they can be smaller in hot weather so your last picture of the smaller rose is normal too!

    Thank you for that response. Very informative and reassuring. So I won't go charging out with my secateurs!
  • NollieNollie Posts: 7,529
    You’re welcome, I could understand your concern tho, that is one vicious beast of a cane! I had a similar thorny monster pop up on HT rose called Alexander.
    Mountainous Northern Catalunya, Spain. Hot summers, cold winters.
  • WAMSWAMS Posts: 1,960
    The thorniness of new canes does seem to vary a lot. These two new ones on Arthur Bell were about the same age (pic from June).

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