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Grapevine - kill or cure! 😳

ShepherdsBarnShepherdsBarn Posts: 401
in Fruit & veg
I need a step-by-step idiots guide to training and trimming a grapevine ... with photos!
I keep looking for flowers (though I'm not really sure where I should be looking for them) ... should they be showing by now or is it a bit too early? I read that you should trim off the unnecessary tendrils ... so I went for it, BUT some have what look like the beginning of flower buds? 🤷🏼‍♀️ Are they flowers? Should I have left them?! I have also pruned several of the very long stems to five leaves. I have not touched the woody growth.
The vine (Black Hamburg) was bought about 14 years ago, is in a polytunnel and has never 'properly' fruited due to lack of care, time and expertise!
Here is a picture of one of the tendrils ...

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  • tui34tui34 Posts: 3,493
    Hi
    I'll go out later and take a photo of mine.  Tendrils don't usually have little bud on them. 
    Watch this space!
    A good hoeing is worth two waterings.

  • ShepherdsBarnShepherdsBarn Posts: 401
    Thank you! 😊
  • WoodgreenWoodgreen Posts: 1,273
    edited May 2022
    @ShepherdsBarn I just went and looked at mine.
    It's not Black Hamburg and grows in a greenhouse.
    There are no tendrils on the flower/fruit stalks I'm afraid, not on mine anyhow.
    The tendrils grow out from where leaves grow .
    This is a fruiting growth, pruned on Sunday. Note no tendrils.



    This is a growth yet to be cut back to a bud or two from the rod (or discarded)  Note the tendrils
    As I say, this isn't a Black Hamburg, but I don't know if that makes a difference. Your vine may yet put out more flowering stems, this one is still doing so, but it's extremely vigorous!
  • ShepherdsBarnShepherdsBarn Posts: 401
    Oh dear ... we have waited so long to be able to grow grapes successfully and I hoped that this year, with a new polytunnel cover and doors, it would do well. ☹️ It produced two or three bunches of grapes last year (for the very first time) after my daughter pruned it ... but the bunches had only about 6 grapes each! I guess it has done well to survive all these years on neglect!
    Thank you for taking the photos - that's really helpful. When you point out that there are no tendrils, is it because you cut them off or have none grown?
    Thank again. 😊
  • EustaceEustace Posts: 2,290
    edited May 2022
    This is a photo I took just now showing the sideshoot and the bunch forming.
    Edited to add: flower buds don't form on the tendrils. They form opposite a leaf in my grapevine (not the variety you have).


    Oxford. The City of Dreaming Spires.
    And then my heart with pleasure fills,
    And dances with the daffodils (roses). Taking a bit of liberty with Wordsworth :)

  • WoodgreenWoodgreen Posts: 1,273
    edited May 2022
    On this vine the tendrils grow from leaf joints further along the stem. The flowering shoots emerge closer to the rod ( as in Eustace's photo.). It's those long waving triffid-like growths that are seeking anchorage! I prune off way more than I keep. As Monty Don says, better twenty edible bunches than two hundred mouldering wasp-infested ones.
    It's a crazy amount of work though....and only possible on wet days or first light/dusk on nice days.
    It's planted inside but not far from a stream so never needs watering.

    Edited to add:
    The fruiting stems are shortened to two buds beyond the grapes and non-fruiting ones are kept pruned, so that the tendrils are automatically dispensed with by the routine pruning.

  • ShepherdsBarnShepherdsBarn Posts: 401
    I'd be more than happy to trim off excess flowers ... if we had any! ☹️😂

    But what could the little 'flower' like heads be on the tendrils?

  • tui34tui34 Posts: 3,493
    I have taken some photos, but feel a little embarrassed about posting them.  I am in the South of France.  Hotter weather than you but it is only about 24°C today and very windy, so photography difficult.  The growth is prolific - but I wouldn't think of cutting back until late July.  Never cut back a branch that has fruit - they need the leaves for nourishment and if I have to - I make sure there are plenty of leaves on the branch.  I never water them either, they are on stony ground.

    Tendrils are to help the vine (a creeper) latch onto to something.   As @Eustace says, tendrils don't have flowers.   Flowers grow on stalks. 

    @Eustace   That looks a great vine - healthy and growing nicely.

    Just a note - has your vine been grafted onto rootstock, by any chance?  

    You may be pruning and clipping a little too much.  They do need space and if you are in limited space, the vine won't develop.

    Watch pot never boils!!

    Here are some photos.
    A good hoeing is worth two waterings.

  • tui34tui34 Posts: 3,493
    Tendril
    Tendrils
    Flowers - a little more mature than Eustace - due to my position.
    Overall view.
    Yep.  Would say you've nipped off some flower buds there!!  

    Best make a cup of tea coz without it, all is darkness and chaos!!!
    A good hoeing is worth two waterings.

  • tui34tui34 Posts: 3,493
    PS  It is very windy today and there are some breakages - that doesn't hurt.  I wouldn't think a little nip and tuck here and there could hurt either -  BUT if you are lopping off the ends to try and give the vine some "strength" - it is far too early.
    A good hoeing is worth two waterings.

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