Is my pine tree dying?

dilby · April 2022

Hi all - I have a pine tree in my garden that I love having as it ads an architecture feature that I'd really miss. I've lived here for about 6 years and heard from time to time from neighbours that it used to look a lot more healthy. But of course, I've heard other nostalgic remarks from these folks that don't add up. I have however seen some old photos from when i moved in that do appear to show it more green and fuller but it's hard to tell as it's not the best quality. I've attached a photo that isn't the best but hopefully helps show what i mean; it's always been patchy (there used to be another pine next to it years ago that kind of grew into it so it has some bare areas) but there are clearly some dead branches. Every storm lots of branches blow of and it needs a trim again as some hang down. What I'm confused about is if it's losing all these branches where do new branches grow on a pine? I had a tree surgeon over a couple of years ago and he said the pine is mature so won't grow any new branches but grows new needles on the end of the branches. So in this case I'm concerned that every branch that drops off is another bald area on the tree. And if this is the case, is there a reason that could be making my tree unhealthy? I want to catch any issues now. The tree surgeon also said the browning was due to winter burn, but here our winter wasn't even that cold (south wales) and it's looking really brown in parts. Have tried to research but very hard thing to google and was just hoping for some helpful advice from any kind folks out there - thanks!

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6030279/uploads/editor/7x/juv14nvfusax.jpg

Uff · April 2022

It's difficult to say what's happening to your tree from the photograph. I can see some brown patches and some bare twigs but the problem can be several different things including dryness at the roots and I'd put that at the top of the list.
Pines do lose some needles during the year and it's common for twigs to break off but from your photograph, I can't say more than that.

Fairygirl · April 2022

I agree. It's quite normal for them to have some damage over winter, and to have some brown areas. In long dry spells, you might get a bit more than usual. It doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem.
We have loads of them round here - they're one of our most common trees, and they always get some damage - branches rubbing and needles browning etc.

dilby · April 2022

Thanks both - In regards to the dryness i haven't really done anything that would affect this, but we have had dry summers lately, and sadly this is probably the way things are now going. Do pines of this size grow new branches though? Were the tree surgeons right that they only grow new needles on existing branches while mature? Because if so that means that every new dead branch is a new forever bald spot!

Uff · April 2022

I've just copied this from the internet giving a rough idea of how much water a pine needs per day. See below. Your pine will have been planted many years before those houses were built so now the gardens are vying for the water too. Its roots will be in the nearby gardens.

''The basic rule for drinking pine is 10 gallons of water for every single inch of tree diameter. That means a 12-inch plant will absorb nearly 120 gallons of water. There are also records that average pine trees can absorb up to 150 gallons of water a day when there is unlimited water.''

dilby · April 2022

Thanks all. I took a closer look today and it really is even worse than I thought, and it seems the branches are dying from the inside out; almost every branch where the needles aren't at the outer width of the tree is now dead. I'll admit that pines need more water than I thought (I grew up in australia where the pines there go without water for months) but I can't see how anything has changed, and also our garden is very boggy in the winter; in fact our garden is lower than all of our neighbours and we consequently have a very high water table. Historically a stream ran through our garden, and I'm wondering if the opposite problem is true, and there is too much water and I have root rot, as this article suggests:

"Browning is often caused by an inability of the pine tree to uptake enough water to keep its needles alive. When moisture is overly abundant and drainage is poor, root rot is often the culprit. As roots die, you may notice your pine tree dying from the inside out."

Does anyone know the most effective method for checking this? I really don't know where to start!

Fairygirl · April 2022

That may well be the case. You'd probably see evidence of that though, in terms of waterlogged soil.
Is there anything around it that's affected too? Do you have a lawn nearby, for example?
All plants need adequate drainage, the exception being pond plants. Even bog plants need some drainage, and oxygen for the roots, or soil just becomes sour and stale.

If the tree's rotting, there won't be much you can do. It might be better to get the tree surgeon out for another look.

dilby · April 2022

Fairygirl said:

That may well be the case. You'd probably see evidence of that though, in terms of waterlogged soil.
Is there anything around it that's affected too? Do you have a lawn nearby, for example?
All plants need adequate drainage, the exception being pond plants. Even bog plants need some drainage, and oxygen for the roots, or soil just becomes sour and stale.

If the tree's rotting, there won't be much you can do. It might be better to get the tree surgeon out for another look.

Thanks @fai@Fairygirl - yes it's surrounded in lawn, and then there are garden beds a few meteres away and a huge horse chestnut tree probably 15m away (again they have been there for decades). The homeowner before us put soakaway pipes throughout the ground as it was so boggy and now it seems a lot better; it's only really in winter that it gets very waterlogged, but that doesn't seem unique to us. In terms of a tree surgeon, the only time i had one around they were basically wanting to chop everything down as that seemed to be the only way to make their money. Is it common for tree surgeons to just deal specifically with tree health?

Fairygirl · April 2022

I don't know - never had to use one @dilby. If it's waterlogged in winter though, that isn't great.
Mature trees would normally soak up excess winter wet no problem, so it could well be that that's your problem there. It's reached a point where the drainage just isn't adequate.
We have loads of mature trees of all kinds round here [masses of pine and horse chestnut] and the wet winters [ very high rainfall here] never cause problems, because there's still enough drainage for them. More problems are caused by periods of drought than wet.

Dovefromabove · April 2022

We chose a local firm who were members of the Arboricultural Assoc. The firm we chose were also used by local Nat. Trust properties and we also checked recommendations. We have been impressed and pleased with their work.

I would never use one of the so called ‘Tree Surgeons’ who knock on our doors from time to time offering to ‘deal with your trees’.

dilby · April 2022

Dovefromabove said:

We chose a local firm who were members of the Arboricultural Assoc. The firm we chose were also used by local Nat. Trust properties and we also checked recommendations. We have been impressed and pleased with their work.
I would never use one of the so called ‘Tree Surgeons’ who knock on our doors from time to time offering to ‘deal with your trees’.

Good advice, many thanks. I'll get on it and post back if anyone is interested!

Is my pine tree dying?

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