There were many attempts over the years to have the statue moved to a museum, or to have the wording of the plaque changed, in order to place it in a historical context, but a few powerful men kept blocking it … details on the link I posted.
Colston made a massive fortune by selling people. It didn't require any sort of nuance in understanding to be aware that was abhorrent in any context. Plenty of his contemporaries knew it and called it. From the little I know about Churchill, he made some poor military decisions and held some views that today would be seen as wrong, but that wouldn't put him in the same bracket as the big slave traders. I may be wrong - I'm not that well versed in his back story. The parallel with Saville was observed at the time the Colston statue was pulled down. It was briefly replaced by a 'statue' dressed as Jimmy Saville, to make exactly that point. All of Saville's statues - and there were several - have been removed, afaik. No one seems to regard that as obliterating history.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Colston made a massive fortune by selling people. It didn't require any sort of nuance in understanding to be aware that was abhorrent in any context. Plenty of his contemporaries knew it and called it. From the little I know about Churchill, he made some poor military decisions and held some views that today would be seen as wrong, but that wouldn't put him in the same bracket as the big slave traders. I may be wrong - I'm not that well versed in his back story.
I'm not suggesting " in the same bracket " but hardly worthy of a statue
There were many attempts over the years to have the statue moved to a museum, or to have the wording of the plaque changed, in order to place it in a historical context, but a few powerful men kept blocking it … details on the link I posted.
Which is why putting it to a jury was always risky. A lot of Bristolians were (are) fed up with the power the Merchant Venturers still have in the city over council matters. Thumbing their nose at them was always quite likely to be the outcome.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
As I’ve said in the past I am rarely comfortable with ‘direct action’ …
hopefully now other local authorities will take public opinion on board and take appropriate action before the populace/electorate becomes irate at having been fobbed off over and over again … 🤞
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
As I’ve said in the past I am rarely comfortable with ‘direct action’ …
hopefully now other local authorities will take public opinion on board and take appropriate action before the populace/electorate becomes irate at having been fobbed off over and over again …
I concur. At the very least I'd hope some sort of discussion / debate is begun
Colston wasn't alone in making money from the slave trade. Those who sold their own people to the slavers can hardly be absolved from blame either. That is rarely discussed in this argument but it should be. What about our role in the Opium trade ? Not often mentioned when we talk about addiction is it ? The UK's dreadful history in India ? All in the name of Empire. Colston certainly left a legacy in Bristol - beneficial in many ways to this day so it does seem a bit daft to deny it by dumping his statue in the docks rather than trying to use it in a historical context to educate future generations. Slavery is abhorrent in any form but it is still prevalent in many parts of the world including the UK. Picking on just 1 example seems very shortsighted. How about rich Saudis living in the UK who "employ" ( a euphemism ) people from poorer countries and completely ignore their civil rights ? Or the proven fact of "trafficking " resulting in slave labour here and elsewhere ? I'm sure there are many more examples we could come up with. All in all, we haven't really learned much in the last 300 years or so - we just use different terms. Looking back over time, we could pick out some real w***ers who are both deified and reviled in equal measure but rather than try and obliterate their existence entirely, surely we should be holding them up for future generations to learn from ? Not only historical figures either. I know this Forum could hardly be said to represent world views but how often do we hold up politicians, royalty, aristocracy, scientists,business leaders, councillors - you name it - to ridicule or worse ? Without a doubt, we in the UK have benefited from what our ancestors did - good or bad. We, like any other nation, can't help our history. The key is to learn from it but sadly not much evidence of that so far. If the above is not curmudgeonly enough....... it's blowing a gale here and I might hold my own little protest about the weather - feel free to join me if you are suffering too
As I’ve said in the past I am rarely comfortable with ‘direct action’ …
hopefully now other local authorities will take public opinion on board and take appropriate action before the populace/electorate becomes irate at having been fobbed off over and over again … 🤞
Put it to the vote before any action to remove statues, rename streets etc. Require a vote by more than 50% of the electorate (not just those who vote) in favour of the proposed action. That's the only way to get a true measure of public opinion. 'Public opinion' is not always voiced by those with the biggest mouths.
Years ago Glasgow City Council tried to get the South African consulate to leave, but they refused. GCC renamed the Square where they resided as Nelson Mandela Square. They didn't stay long after that.
I would hazard a guess that much of the wealth of this country, including some of the finest country houses and parks, derived from the slave trade. Do we now pull down all the relevant statues and tear down the houses? Where do we draw the line? The Romans owned slaves, do we now destroy their statutes, bath houses, the Roman Baths even?
As a child I often used to see and admire the statue of Edward Colston when I went to Bristol. I am rather sad it is no longer there. We often used to go to Colston Hall for performances, it's already been re-named - another piece of my childhood obliterated. We were often told of what good Colston had done for the citizens of Bristol but we were not taught much about the connection of Bristol and the slave trade. I believe Colston did repent of his involvement and tried to make reparation. Does that count for nothing?
We can't judge the past by the present. Our ancestors did what they did according to the mores of their time, not ours.
Posts
From the little I know about Churchill, he made some poor military decisions and held some views that today would be seen as wrong, but that wouldn't put him in the same bracket as the big slave traders. I may be wrong - I'm not that well versed in his back story.
The parallel with Saville was observed at the time the Colston statue was pulled down. It was briefly replaced by a 'statue' dressed as Jimmy Saville, to make exactly that point. All of Saville's statues - and there were several - have been removed, afaik. No one seems to regard that as obliterating history.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
At the very least I'd hope some sort of discussion / debate is begun
What about our role in the Opium trade ? Not often mentioned when we talk about addiction is it ? The UK's dreadful history in India ? All in the name of Empire.
Colston certainly left a legacy in Bristol - beneficial in many ways to this day so it does seem a bit daft to deny it by dumping his statue in the docks rather than trying to use it in a historical context to educate future generations. Slavery is abhorrent in any form but it is still prevalent in many parts of the world including the UK. Picking on just 1 example seems very shortsighted. How about rich Saudis living in the UK who "employ" ( a euphemism ) people from poorer countries and completely ignore their civil rights ? Or the proven fact of "trafficking " resulting in slave labour here and elsewhere ? I'm sure there are many more examples we could come up with. All in all, we haven't really learned much in the last 300 years or so - we just use different terms.
Looking back over time, we could pick out some real w***ers who are both deified and reviled in equal measure but rather than try and obliterate their existence entirely, surely we should be holding them up for future generations to learn from ? Not only historical figures either. I know this Forum could hardly be said to represent world views but how often do we hold up politicians, royalty, aristocracy, scientists,business leaders, councillors - you name it - to ridicule or worse ?
Without a doubt, we in the UK have benefited from what our ancestors did - good or bad. We, like any other nation, can't help our history. The key is to learn from it but sadly not much evidence of that so far.
If the above is not curmudgeonly enough....... it's blowing a gale here and I might hold my own little protest about the weather - feel free to join me if you are suffering too
Put it to the vote before any action to remove statues, rename streets etc. Require a vote by more than 50% of the electorate (not just those who vote) in favour of the proposed action. That's the only way to get a true measure of public opinion. 'Public opinion' is not always voiced by those with the biggest mouths.
GCC renamed the Square where they resided as Nelson Mandela Square. They didn't stay long after that.
The Romans owned slaves, do we now destroy their statutes, bath houses, the Roman Baths even?
As a child I often used to see and admire the statue of Edward Colston when I went to Bristol. I am rather sad it is no longer there. We often used to go to Colston Hall for performances, it's already been re-named - another piece of my childhood obliterated.
We were often told of what good Colston had done for the citizens of Bristol but we were not taught much about the connection of Bristol and the slave trade. I believe Colston did repent of his involvement and tried to make reparation. Does that count for nothing?
We can't judge the past by the present. Our ancestors did what they did according to the mores of their time, not ours.