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Is My Plant Rudbeckia or Helianthus?

LunarSeaLunarSea Posts: 1,923
in Plants



A few years ago I obtained a clump of this plant from a friend but I've never been entirely sure what it is. As beautiful as it is I can tell you it's a thug, spreading rapidly by rhizomes and coming up through the lawn! 

Any thoughts?
Clay soil - Cheshire/Derbyshire border. 

I play with plants and soil and sometimes it's successful
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Posts

  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    I'd say Helianthus. Rudbeckias tend to be slightly more reflexed in the petals [though not always] and the central cone is more pronounced.
    Rudbeckias tend to spread by self seeding too. I don't think there's too many Helianthus that spread by running, but you might have one of those. You can always divide it and plant elsewhere, or give it away. Maybe that's why you were given a clump ;)
    They benefit from that division every few years anyway - like most perennials  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • punkdocpunkdoc Posts: 15,039
    I’d say Helianthus to.
    How can you lie there and think of England
    When you don't even know who's in the team

    S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
  • PosyPosy Posts: 3,601
    I have one and also vote for Helianthus. Love it, but absolute thug.
  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,585
    Another vote for Helianthus. I'm forever having to dig it up from the front of the bed as it makes a bid for freedom,  but it is beautiful and the bees love it.
  • LunarSeaLunarSea Posts: 1,923
    edited October 2021
    Great, thanks all  :)

    You may have seen the last episode of Gardener's World when Monty finally told us about his tall yellow flowers that had been shown several times during the programme. I've watched it back and those flowers look identical to mine, yet Monty introduced it as Rudbeckia laciniata :/  Admittedly, if filmed last week, it's flowering a fair bit later than mine, but it looks nothing like the images I've found of this Rudbeckia.

    A few years ago I obtained two plant clumps from friends. One friend works in Sheffield Botanical Gardens, where I'd volunteered for a while, the other lives in our village and owns a small garden centre near Macclesfield. The plant on display in Sheffield is labelled as Helianthus x laetiflorus 'Miss Mellish'. The one from my other friend was described as a Rudbeckia. Now both clumps have matured into stunning displays but, try as I might, I've never been able to tell the difference between them so can only conclude that one was incorrectly named.
    Clay soil - Cheshire/Derbyshire border. 

    I play with plants and soil and sometimes it's successful
  • Silver surferSilver surfer Posts: 4,719
    edited October 2021
    VictorMeldrew said:
    Great, thanks all  :)

    You may have seen the last episode of Gardener's World when Monty finally told us about his tall yellow flowers that had been shown several times during the programme. I've watched it back and those flowers look identical to mine, yet Monty introduced it as Rudbeckia laciniata :/ 
    Had a look at Gardeners World..episode 30.just about 38 mins in Monty showed his yellow flowers.  Leaves don't look right for Rudbeckia laciniata.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0010tl3/gardeners-world-2021-episode-30

    Leaves of Rudbeckia laciniata are very different to your plant .see...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Rudbeckia+laciniata+LEAVES&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8uZql1OrzAhUUTcAKHct0Ax0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1280&bih=595&dpr=1.5#imgrc=Z1RwTVIIOfp96M

     https://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1862
    Perthshire. SCOTLAND .
  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,585
    @Silver surfer, do you have any idea what the plant was that Monty showed ?
    It looked very similar to mine which was sold to me as Helianthus "Monarch", although l'm not sure that's correct. 
  • LunarSeaLunarSea Posts: 1,923
    Silver surfer said:
    Had a look at Gardeners World..episode 30.just about 38 mins in Monty showed his yellow flowers.  Leaves don't look right for Rudbeckia laciniata.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0010tl3/gardeners-world-2021-episode-30

    Leaves of Rudbeckia laciniata are very different to your plant .see...

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Rudbeckia+laciniata+LEAVES&client=firefox-b-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj8uZql1OrzAhUUTcAKHct0Ax0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1280&bih=595&dpr=1.5#imgrc=Z1RwTVIIOfp96M

     https://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1862
    @Silver surfer - thanks for that. Yeah, it backs up exactly what I thought when I looked up Monty's plant after watching the programme.
    Clay soil - Cheshire/Derbyshire border. 

    I play with plants and soil and sometimes it's successful
  • LunarSeaLunarSea Posts: 1,923
    Fairygirl said:
    You can always divide it and plant elsewhere, or give it away. Maybe that's why you were given a clump ;)
    They benefit from that division every few years anyway - like most perennials  :)
    Yeah, I spent a full day reducing both clumps the other day. Can't believe they'd spread so much in two years. I potted some up into 6 inch pots in case anybody wanted any and also potted up a big tub to make a further 'movable' display. But I still threw loads of it away which made me feel really bad. I was tempted to do a bit of guerrilla gardening :D
     

    Clay soil - Cheshire/Derbyshire border. 

    I play with plants and soil and sometimes it's successful
  • Mike FridayMike Friday Posts: 83
    VictorMeldrew:  This looks pretty much like the plants we've had in our garden for at least 60 years, but I've never had a variety name for it. It's not uncommon, and I've seen it in a park and also other people's gardens. Like a few other plants in our garden, it gets knobbled by an unseen bug (greenfly?) every spring which distorts the new growth.
    I did up a clump in the autumn and cut off the newly emerging runners and pot them up. They sit dorment over winter and start sprouting in the spring.
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