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' Philadelphus Virginal ' not flowering.

psivayokanpsivayokan Posts: 2
in Problem solving
Philadelphus Virginal in my garden had not flowered for 16 years. Grows vigorously. Pruned in August ( 1/3rd of new growth) regularly ( eventhough not flowering)).
Shade is removed by removing a conifer tree near by ( advice from RHS). Tried different composts & fertilisers . Added extra potassium & so on. Watered well in summer. 6 yrs ago one branch near the ground had 5 or 6 flowers . Thats all. There is a plum tree near by. Should I remove the philadelphus or the plum tree ? Whenever I wish to remove this plant, my wife keep saying ' Leave it for another year '. What else can be done ? Any ideas ?
My gardener keep saying ' remove this plant and grow an apple tree'.
The area is North East of UK.
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  • CharlotteFCharlotteF Posts: 337
    It might be worth skipping a year of pruning in case that's an issue. It might be that August isn't giving quite enough time for stems to ripen. If it does flower the following year try pruning in July that year and see if it makes a difference. 
  • CharlotteFCharlotteF Posts: 337
    Thinking further, have stems been regularly removed to the base or do you have 16 year old wood at the base? If might be worth removal of a few of the oldest stems over winter to rejuvenate it if that's never been done. 
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    I'd agree. You're probably pruning off the flowering stems.
    Removing old, or damaged wood is also important to maintain vigour. Most shrubs need that every so often  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • PosyPosy Posts: 3,601
    The time to prune is immediately after flowering - difficult if there are no flowers of course, but use other trees in the neighbourhood as a guide. I don't take a third off every year, I cut out old or weak growth and reduce anything that's in my way, but otherwise, I let it grow as it likes. It is covered with flowers every year and so is a cutting I took a couple of years ago.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Indeed @Posy. They're among the easiest of shrubs, so it's odd that there's a problem. 

    I see it round here with lilacs and hydrangeas. They're pruned back every year and never flower, and I don't know if the owners of the gardens realise that's why they don't flower.  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • LG_LG_ Posts: 4,360
    I have to agree that it sounds as though you might be pruning too late. Personally I would leave as much as I could unpruned for a year in order to find out one way or another. Then, assuming there are flowers, prune as soon as they finish.
    'If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need.'
    - Cicero
  • fidgetbonesfidgetbones Posts: 17,618
    Do you have a gardener or a grounds maintenance man?   My friend has a "gardener" who prunes her apple tree into a lollipop shape every winter and then they wonder why they get all the water shoots every year and no apples.  Round here I see far too many shrubs that are incorrectly pruned into tidy neat shapes , but never flower.  Try leaving it totally unpruned for a year. If it flowers, you prune it as soon as the flowers fade.  Take off the flowered shoots, and some of the older stems right down to the floor.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    It's a common problem, isn't it @fidgetbones. I always smile when I go past a couple of gardens near here.  Everything clipped into a 'blob', including perennials  ;)

    Sadly, they often don't realise that it can be detrimental to the plants, as well as being visually unappealing too. Often seems to be older men who do it , for some odd reason. 

    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • fidgetbonesfidgetbones Posts: 17,618
    My dad pruned the shrub border into a nice tidy hedge one day while my mum was out shopping.  This was just before most of it was due to come into flower. The philadelphus was already in bud. My mum didn't speak to him for two weeks.  It took two years for the shrubs to recover properly, then my dad complained that they flopped over a bit when it rained. He pruned the tip bearing apple tree one year as well.  That took two years to recover as well. My garden is rather loose and floppy, I prune  on a minimal basis. Partly because when I was working full time I didn't have the time for excessive trimming, and now I like it that way.  The beech hedge gets cut every August and the hawthorn sometime between August and February. I have some dwarf apple trees that get summer pruned, and a huge James Grieve that I barely touch, tends to crop heavily on alternate years. This year I have so many apples I can't give them away. The freezer is full and I have run out of neighbours with freezer space to foist them on to.   Unless it is pruned by cattle or deer chewing it, most shrubs and trees grow into a natural shape all on their own. Give it space and let it be.  If it really is in the wrong place, hoik it out and give something else more suitable a chance.  You can't grow sun lovers in the shade, nor bog plants in dry sandy soil.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    Totally agree @fidgetbones. I love topiary, but there are plants that just shouldn't be tampered with because it leaves them looking really unattractive. I leave shrubs here to grow in a natural form, except when I need to prune them if damaged, or for rejuvenation etc.
    Yes - if there isn't room to let something grow well and show itself off, remove it and replace. It's just another example of right plant, right place   :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
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