Prince Charles is sympathetic to the protests today though. He can't understand why everyone doesn't just convert their Aston Martins to run on biofuel, and if he can give up eating quail and salmon a couple of times a week surely everyone else can too. He didn't mention the petition that was handed to the palace this weekend asking them to consider rewilding some of the crown estates, and he didn't mention if the tax payer stumped up for his solar panels and heat pumps on his various residences.
I watched the interview this morning and Prince Charles said he understands their frustration but does not agree with their actions. That doesn't sound much like 'is sympathetic' to their protests to me. I suspect the interview took place a few days ago so probably before the petition was handed in. He is such a strong supporter of conservation I expect he will be in favour of re-wilding.
Just for clarity, I'm no great fan of his but he was a advocate for conservation and voiced concerns about climate change decades ago.
We need to get more folk involved with political action rather than direct action @punkdoc …. if they’ve the time and energy to take direct action they have the time and energy to stand for parliament … the advent of the internet and crowdfunding makes it perfectly possible for them to raise the support and funds they need …. I really don’t understand why there aren’t loads more parties and independents in politics nowadays.
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
Considering the comments which have been posted, it would seem that those protests which cause disruption to everyday life have far more impact than the more "peaceful" variety. People talk about it more - possibly have a re think on their own actions/lifestyles ? Consider what is important overall ? It's a sad fact that so many protests these days are inevitably marred with a minority who use such demos as an excuse for looting, setting fire to emergency vehicles and general mayhem. People on the whole seem to be getting more anxious about the future but don't see a General Election every 4 or 5 years as the ideal solution. Perhaps why those of a certain age are so familiar with the oft shouted "What do we want ? .... insert as appropriate... "when do we want it ? ..... "Now ". There is a lot more to it than For and Against but that is too complex - especially for a Garden Forum I guess it would be interesting to know which type of protest has resulted in specific positive/advantageous action further down the line. The peaceful marchers or the more "militant" disruptive type ? We should at least thank our lucky stars that Mr. Putin's idea of good governance isn't likely to go down well here. Not yet anyway but it will pay us to be a bit cautious
As a final Curmudgeon, I heard this morning that we should be "shopping for Xmas " now to avoid Panic Buying later. Now there's an invite for panicking if ever there was one
I really don’t understand why there aren’t loads more parties and independents in politics nowadays.
Our political system doesn't give a voice to anyone outside the 2 main parties, with the exception of the SNP in Scotland. There's no point being an independent MP unless you have a local issue to address. They have no platform for national issues at all.
The problem with relying on democratic process in relation to Climate Change - not uniquely in recent history - is the absence of a mature and informed public debate. Most people would probably believe that the two main parties have 'green' policies that relate to their publicly stated targets and objectives. For example, Boris's recent announcement about the electricity grid being zero carbon by 2035. It sounds like we can all sit back and wait for it to happen. In truth, there's no prospect that it will be delivered, based on current policy and law. I've not seen anywhere an explanation of the issues, the problems, the actions, the options, the costs, the cost consequences of not doing it. So I would guess that lots of people wanting climate change action would happily vote for a party who, in truth, have no plan to deliver it. Personally, I don't think the motorway protests are helpful or even sensible. I am far more supportive of XR, although I think disrupting public transport was stupid. But on the whole, they do have a far more coherent 'ask' than 'Insulate Britain'. The climate consequence of blocking motorways is entirely counter-productive to their argument.
I do object to the new laws that seek to curtail even further the legal right to protest. That seems legally unnecessary - just political grandstanding to be seen to be doing something. There are laws already that could be used to at least reduce the disruption from a few misguided individuals.
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
One of the problems, is that many so called democracies, are making it harder for others to remove them: taking control of the Press, the Judiciary and the voting system.
How can you lie there and think of England When you don't even know who's in the team
According to the stats Australian uses 40% coal for its power. China alone produces 27% of green house has. Cannot see net zero being achieved anywhere. Humans will have to adapt.
Philippasmith2, was that the article about freezing food to avoid shortages at Christmas? What a daft selection they suggested! Is there likely to be a shortage of gravy ingredients? And as for freezing Christmas puddings! Funnily enough, I have made in advance, and frozen, pigs in blankets, mainly because they are a bit of a fiddle to put together. One grumble is the amount of Christmas food appearing in the shops now, much of it with a use by date well before Christmas. What is the point of that?
Cannot see net zero being achieved anywhere. Humans will have to adapt.
That's already inevitable but it's a question, literally, of degree. We are supposed to be aiming for no more than 1.5 degrees of warming. We're currently at about 1.2. As we passed 1 degree, the impacts began to be more obvious in this part of the world, but at half a degree, there were places in the world beginning to suffer catastrophic climate change. If we all say 'oh it's too hard, we're going to just do what we do and we'll have to live with it', we'll be lucky if we stay under 5 degrees of warming. That is believed to be basically un-survivable for humanity, at best there will be a population collapse of around 80% (to a total population under a billion) by the end of this century - so within the lifetime of people already born. If we say we must do everything we can, even knowing it's not going to enough to avoid all effects, we might get it down to 2 degrees of warming. If the whole world except China was net zero, the harm would still be far far less than if we all say 'we're doing nothing until they do'.
NASA believe 1m of sea level rise is already inevitable. 150million people live within 1m of current sea level. Currently we seem to be heading for just over 3 degrees of warming
Gardening on the edge of Exmoor, in Devon
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
Not sure @Ergates I'm afraid I eventually tuned out because it was so ridiculous. It came across ( to me at any rate ) simply as Panic Buy now rather than Panic Buy in November/December. I'm only surprised that we aren't yet being cajoled into panic buying for the New Year (shortage of fireworks ? Hurray !! ) and then there is Easter of course with the possible shortage of nasty choc confections. There's only 5 or 6 months to go after all. And then before we know it, it'll be Xmas 2022 to panic about
I do object to the new laws that seek to curtail even further the legal right to protest. That seems legally unnecessary - just political grandstanding to be seen to be doing something. There are laws already that could be used to at least reduce the disruption from a few misguided individuals.
I completely agree raisingirl. For once I agree with Boris (not something I expected to write), when he said the same about another proposal for a new law, although I don't remember the subject of the proposal. If the laws already on the statute book are applied properly there are more than enough to cover most eventualities. When you see police holding back traffic, instead of removing protesters who are causing an obstruction, it would appear much of the problem is with those at the top of the various police forces.
Posts
Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.
It's a sad fact that so many protests these days are inevitably marred with a minority who use such demos as an excuse for looting, setting fire to emergency vehicles and general mayhem.
People on the whole seem to be getting more anxious about the future but don't see a General Election every 4 or 5 years as the ideal solution. Perhaps why those of a certain age are so familiar with the oft shouted "What do we want ? .... insert as appropriate... "when do we want it ? ..... "Now ".
There is a lot more to it than For and Against but that is too complex - especially for a Garden Forum
I guess it would be interesting to know which type of protest has resulted in specific positive/advantageous action further down the line. The peaceful marchers or the more "militant" disruptive type ?
We should at least thank our lucky stars that Mr. Putin's idea of good governance isn't likely to go down well here. Not yet anyway but it will pay us to be a bit cautious
As a final Curmudgeon, I heard this morning that we should be "shopping for Xmas " now to avoid Panic Buying later. Now there's an invite for panicking if ever there was one
The problem with relying on democratic process in relation to Climate Change - not uniquely in recent history - is the absence of a mature and informed public debate. Most people would probably believe that the two main parties have 'green' policies that relate to their publicly stated targets and objectives. For example, Boris's recent announcement about the electricity grid being zero carbon by 2035. It sounds like we can all sit back and wait for it to happen. In truth, there's no prospect that it will be delivered, based on current policy and law. I've not seen anywhere an explanation of the issues, the problems, the actions, the options, the costs, the cost consequences of not doing it. So I would guess that lots of people wanting climate change action would happily vote for a party who, in truth, have no plan to deliver it.
Personally, I don't think the motorway protests are helpful or even sensible. I am far more supportive of XR, although I think disrupting public transport was stupid. But on the whole, they do have a far more coherent 'ask' than 'Insulate Britain'. The climate consequence of blocking motorways is entirely counter-productive to their argument.
I do object to the new laws that seek to curtail even further the legal right to protest. That seems legally unnecessary - just political grandstanding to be seen to be doing something. There are laws already that could be used to at least reduce the disruption from a few misguided individuals.
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
When you don't even know who's in the team
S.Yorkshire/Derbyshire border
One grumble is the amount of Christmas food appearing in the shops now, much of it with a use by date well before Christmas. What is the point of that?
If we all say 'oh it's too hard, we're going to just do what we do and we'll have to live with it', we'll be lucky if we stay under 5 degrees of warming. That is believed to be basically un-survivable for humanity, at best there will be a population collapse of around 80% (to a total population under a billion) by the end of this century - so within the lifetime of people already born.
If we say we must do everything we can, even knowing it's not going to enough to avoid all effects, we might get it down to 2 degrees of warming. If the whole world except China was net zero, the harm would still be far far less than if we all say 'we're doing nothing until they do'.
NASA believe 1m of sea level rise is already inevitable. 150million people live within 1m of current sea level.
Currently we seem to be heading for just over 3 degrees of warming
“It's still magic even if you know how it's done.”
I'm only surprised that we aren't yet being cajoled into panic buying for the New Year (shortage of fireworks ? Hurray !! ) and then there is Easter of course with the possible shortage of nasty choc confections. There's only 5 or 6 months to go after all. And then before we know it, it'll be Xmas 2022 to panic about
I completely agree raisingirl. For once I agree with Boris (not something I expected to write), when he said the same about another proposal for a new law, although I don't remember the subject of the proposal. If the laws already on the statute book are applied properly there are more than enough to cover most eventualities. When you see police holding back traffic, instead of removing protesters who are causing an obstruction, it would appear much of the problem is with those at the top of the various police forces.