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How should we fund Social Care?

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  • JoeXJoeX Posts: 1,783
    steveTu said:
    Totally true - but look at the age split for social care spend. To me there are two levels here (and hence why I said that social care and pension are effectively 'bundled') - general social care (which I think should be covered by the current tax contributions), and the draining post-retirement social care.  I still think the gov(s) are moving towards ditching(or reducing) the State Pension and going private anyway. Would it be so stupid to do the same for post retirement social care? The gov has said that the contribution to care cover will be capped, so that gives a target for each of us to hit over our lifetimes - and whether we do that via taxation to the gov or paying a private service, the money has to be saved doesn't it? Personally, I think both routes have their drawbacks - if paid to the gov, at least shareholders aren't paid, but then the gov(s) have a poor record running such schemes (admin goes up) - and the temptation is to use the money collected for other things. If paid to a private org, you have control over the money and can manage your own pot, but then they'll be charges for admin and payments to shareholders and what happens on an individual basis if you don't reach your target fund total?

    Refer page 18 of https://ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/R143_Chapter1.pdf, where you see the obvious - drain on care when young and old - but mainly old.

    If what I perceive to be happening actually is, then the slowly diminishing number of public sector final salary pensions will stop hitting the gov 'pot', and over a longer period, private pensions will supersede the state pension. The gov 'pot' will have a significantly smaller drain. It's odd that people don't see their contributions to private pensions as another tax - which is why I'm surprised that old Boris didn't bite the bullet and go private on post retirement social care - as it wouldn't be seen to be a 'gov' thing.
    The private/public argument is largely a right/left argument with one side believing the private sector is more efficient, and the other believing the government is more trustworthy…I’m not convinced that either is true.  And it’s not specific to “social care” - whatever that is.

    Philosophically I tend to believe that the state is better off insuring anything that is mandatory - for example, to own a car or house you must have insurance.  Optional insurance I think should be private.

    As an aside, private health insurance as an industry has been on the decline in the UK for years, and took a massive hit in Covid times.

    The problem with social care and medical care, the whole of the NHS is that it is really ducking expensive for the country.  We want it, but we don’t want to pay for it.  Then we complain that it’s crappy.  It’s a bit like a garden with no investment - it still works but it’s no show garden.
  • Lizzie27Lizzie27 Posts: 12,494
    @steveTu,  saving for your old age already exists and has done so for at least the last 60 years to my knowledge, it's called a pension and it's voluntary so it's not a tax. Those of us sensible enough to give up current pleasures to save for future ones (including social care in old age) do so and have always done so whether via private pensions or Building Society accounts.

    Some younger people don't seem to do that any more, they spend everything they earn and want everything now. They're quite happy to get into debt. Money management and the facts of life should have been taught in schools long ago and parents should lead by example. The State Pension was never intended to fund a post retirement lifestyle, it was just a safety net for basic necessities.
    North East Somerset - Clay soil over limestone
  • steveTusteveTu Posts: 3,219
    Didn't that change subtly with the introduction of work place pensions? Prior to that employers didn't have to offer anything, let alone contribute. So there were loads of people who never had any other pension apart from the state pension. Now with the workplace pension employer and gov contribution being mandatory if the employee contributes, there's a massive incentive for the employee.
    Watch this space - I will wager that they will become mandatory for the employee at some stage.

    UK - South Coast Retirement Campus (East)
  • When my parents were raising me,  my father worked,  Mum raised the kids,  until school age then had part time work.  This was sufficient to run a family with no state benefit other than child allowance.  When I was the age that we would have liked to have children, I saw myself as not having that option as every job i and my husband had,  only ever paid enough to live and not comfortably either,  no holidays,  never able to get a deposit for a mortgage,  not able to learn to drive until I was 40 due to rent and bills being so high I could never afford it.  So we decided it would be irresponsible to have children.  Shame considering some of the parenting I've witnessed. 
    Still live in rented accommodation . He is 52 with sickle cell,  I'm 45. So no holidays,  so never own a house when others have multiple houses.  Still work hard on rubbish income,  very much in love and happy.  I pity those that lose perspective on what's important in life. 
    So no,  I have no idea what our future holds,  no pension other than state but we have always paid our tax. 
    The plan is that we will have an old age commune with our other friends that have not had good fortune in life,  pool resources . After all I can't see us fitting in at golden days retirement home!
  • Lizzie27Lizzie27 Posts: 12,494
    I won't say workplace pensions are a waste of space @steveTu, but the harsh truth is that peanuts in, peanuts out. I used to be an IFA and when I explained to my clients just how much they should pay into pension provision in order to provide for a reasonable retirement, very few bit the bullet and contributed well. They will be regretting it now.  I can't even say I took my own advice, although I contributed as much as I could. Life and life choices tend to get in the way so I understand where WonkyWomble is coming from.
    North East Somerset - Clay soil over limestone
  • Valley GardenerValley Gardener Posts: 2,851
    edited September 2021
    Probably sticking my head above the parapet here!
    We are quite ancient pensioners and have often said that if all the pensioners on free prescriptions paid £1 , each time a script was filled,it would have helped the NHS no end. Im sure most wouldnt miss a quid every month. I think there are over 8.000.000 of us😊

    @Hostafan1 I'm very sorry to hear your sad news.
    The whole truth is an instrument that can only be played by an expert.
  • A £1 a head would probably cost more that it’s worth in admin. 😞 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    edited September 2021
    A £1 a head would probably cost more that it’s worth in admin. 😞 

    A fiver might give enough pause to stop people wasting the resources - as with GP appointments not being missed. They may save money that way.
  • FireFire Posts: 19,096
    @WonkyWomble I'm so very sorry to hear that your partner has Sickle Cell. Such a horrible disease.
  • Thank you @Fire it truly is and no treatment,  we lost our 42 year old nephew to it 3 years ago,  it's terrifying especially during a pandemic when others don't take the risk seriously. 
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