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Depth Required for Hedging

danny_ryan95danny_ryan95 Posts: 45
in Plants
Hey guys,

After some advice on this subject.

We've recently bought a house that has a small area of ground at the front that, at the moment, has some plants with some bark down. It doesn't look very good.

We wanted to plant Red Robin. The soil isn't great, but we planned to dig it all up, break it all up and lay some decent top soil.

We've realised that the actual overall depth of the area is ~20cm, and now I'm concerned about trying to plant the Red Robin and it not surviving due the poor depth.

Is it likely that if I plant a Red Robin that's already a significant size, that it'll just die and that if I plant a very small one, it'll simply not grow to any decent size?
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  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,585
    Welcome to the forum  :)
    Normally l would say that you need to plant the Photinia Red Robin at the same depth as it is in the pot, so if you have less than 20cms l think it would struggle. Even if you used smaller plants l don't think the depth is enough, but others may disagree. 
    Is it impossible to dig out the area more deeply? 
  • danny_ryan95danny_ryan95 Posts: 45
    AnniD said:
    Welcome to the forum  :)
    Normally l would say that you need to plant the Photinia Red Robin at the same depth as it is in the pot, so if you have less than 20cms l think it would struggle. Even if you used smaller plants l don't think the depth is enough, but others may disagree. 
    Is it impossible to dig out the area more deeply? 
    Thank you :)

    What kind of depth would be a minimum? We dug up a small section and broke through some rubble at 15cm and got down to 20cm. It might be worth us digging up a larger section and getting some larger tools at it, as that was literally my wife using a small trowel.

    It's a New Build property and unfortunately they tend to be the bare minimum when it comes to soil.
  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,585
    edited June 2021
    Tell me about it ! I would definitely try and get the area prepared by using a spade and even a mattock or pickaxe if necessary to loosen it. If you're planting anything, preparation is the key. I would try and get down at least 18 inches if you possibly can, loosen the bottom with the pick axe if it's solid, and then add a mix of topsoil, the existing soil if it's not too bad, and some well rotted manure (you can buy in bags from the garden centre)
    Have a look at this link (I don't have any connection to the nursery), it should help .
    https://www.hedging.co.uk/acatalog/new_hedges.html

    Also some info here about dealing with a new build garden 
    https://www.rhs.org.uk/garden-inspiration/garden-types/new-build-gardens
  • AaronBilAaronBil Posts: 100
    Mix in a load of compost or manure too help bulk it and retain some moisture. Red robins I think are pretty hungry plants. You’ll either end up with black spot and sparse foliage or a cracker, they can be a little bit temperamental.
  • FairygirlFairygirl Posts: 55,117
    20 cm depth is very little for anything to establish and thrive, and it'll depend what's underneath that as to what you could plant. If it's all builder's rubble below it, you'll need to get a digger in to remove a good layer of that before adding loads of organic matter and soil. Those Photinias generally look dreadful up here, so it also depends on what your climate is like. They need decent conditions with moisture but good drainage, and warmth, to do well. In colder wetter areas, they drop foliage very readily and get riddled with black spot.
    As @AnniD says - you need to have good prep for planting hedging or shrubs, and without that, they'll always struggle. 
    It might be easier to create a raised bed from sleepers or similar, to get the depth you need, but again, that will depend on your layout and how much room there is.  
    I've successfully put in hedges in less than perfect conditions, but it takes a bit of work initially, and good aftercare until they establish. I've always done them bare root in autumn, to take advantage of rainfall too, and plenty of mulching in subsequent years. We get plenty of rain here all year round though, so it becomes quite easy after the initial planting. If you don't have that, then the prep and aftercare is even more important.  :)
    It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....



    I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
  • danny_ryan95danny_ryan95 Posts: 45
    Fairygirl said:
    20 cm depth is very little for anything to establish and thrive, and it'll depend what's underneath that as to what you could plant. If it's all builder's rubble below it, you'll need to get a digger in to remove a good layer of that before adding loads of organic matter and soil. Those Photinias generally look dreadful up here, so it also depends on what your climate is like. They need decent conditions with moisture but good drainage, and warmth, to do well. In colder wetter areas, they drop foliage very readily and get riddled with black spot.
    As @AnniD says - you need to have good prep for planting hedging or shrubs, and without that, they'll always struggle. 
    It might be easier to create a raised bed from sleepers or similar, to get the depth you need, but again, that will depend on your layout and how much room there is.  
    I've successfully put in hedges in less than perfect conditions, but it takes a bit of work initially, and good aftercare until they establish. I've always done them bare root in autumn, to take advantage of rainfall too, and plenty of mulching in subsequent years. We get plenty of rain here all year round though, so it becomes quite easy after the initial planting. If you don't have that, then the prep and aftercare is even more important.  :)
    I live in Greater Manchester so not a too dissimilar weather.

    The area in question is quite a small area, between a path and the drive.

    It's made up of 3 sections, a 35.5 x 129 section that splits off the area between us and our neighbour, and is shared albeit now split off by some fencing. The rest is a sort of pan handle shape that is 536cm wide and then 149.5cm and 110cm at the pan handle part. About 7.5 square metres of area in total.

    I've actually decided to include a photo of the area. If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them. There's now a small fence down the middle in line with the wall. The current bark and plants were put in by the developer. They don't look great and the chippings collect debris, crisp packets and leaves (we have a lot of trees at our rear, probably 2-3 times the height of the house).

    I am considering trying to dig down to plant the Red Robins. The front of the house is North facing, so I do have some concerns about the amount of sunlight they would get, more so the side closer to the house.


  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    edited June 2021
    I’m not clear from the photo, but if the area is alongside a driveway you’ll need to ensure that there’s room to open car doors … hedges alongside can make it difficult whereas low plants don’t. 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • danny_ryan95danny_ryan95 Posts: 45
    Dovefromabove said:
    I’m not clear from the photo, but if the area is alongside a driveway you’ll need to ensure that there’s room to open car doors … hedges alongside can make it difficult whereas low plants don’t. 
    Apologies I didn't realise cropping it had made it potentially unclear but I can see it has.

    The driveway is a double drive, so the front/rear of the car would be facing the plants.
  • AnniDAnniD Posts: 12,585
    I think your main problem will be with the footings for the driveway and maybe the path as well, giving you a narrower planting area than it might seem at first. Preparation even more crucial in that case. 
    Red Robin is okay in partial shade so l think you'd be okay in that respect. 

  • Lizzie27Lizzie27 Posts: 12,494
    edited June 2021
    @danny_ryan95 ,
     I actually think your existing set up looks okay and that you should wait a year or two to let the new plants settle in and grow a bit. Regular watering will help and some feed next spring would be good. 
    I think trying to grow something as large and sometimes difficult as Red Robin in such a small area might be something you will regret.
    North East Somerset - Clay soil over limestone
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