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Newbie Question

HmmmmmmmHmmmmmmm Posts: 13
edited February 2021 in Problem solving
As a newbie what I dont get about gardening is when you plant something you dig a hole about the size of the container the plant came in. Then you amend the soil to help the plant. Fertilizer, compost, lime whatever. This is the same for lawn. I see the top 5-10 cm being amended or top soil added to this depth. But what I dont get is the roots surely will then grow out of this ideal soil and into the native soil. Right? So what happens then? Does the plant get contained like a bonsai. Or does it take most of its needs from the good soil around it and the roots into the native soil dont matter so much? I realize that over time the soil will improve by mulching etc but surely this takes years. What am I not understanding? Is the point of gardening just to get the starting soil right for a plant then it will establish and figure out the poorer quality soil? Im starting a new garden and I have no idea how much soil improvement to make. The soil is rocks and clay. Sure I can can add top soil. But unless I amend 30 plus cm at least, more for trees etc then whats the point.
Note - Im not asking specifically how to amend soil or how much top soil. Im wondering if anyone knows specifically whats going on under there in relation to the roots when they hit not so good soil. Thanks

Posts

  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    You’ve not factored in the activities of worms who take down all the layers of mulch you're going to mulch your beds and borders with over the following years. 😊 

    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • HmmmmmmmHmmmmmmm Posts: 13
    Dovefromabove said:
    You’ve not factored in the activities of worms who take down all the layers of mulch you're going to mulch your beds and borders with over the following years. 😊 
    Yes but the roots will get to the native soil before the worms have time to amend the soil right? another pondering now you mention worms. Can you go out and but a 1000 worms and speed up the process? :)
  • DovefromaboveDovefromabove Posts: 88,147
    If im preparing a new bed or border and the soil is poor then I’d dig well-rotted manure or similar into the whole area before planting anything at all. 

    And don’t forget you’ll be adding a general fertilizer like Fish, Blood & Bone or Growmore or similar to the beds (sprinkled on the surface in the spring) and this will be raked/hoed and watered in by you and the ‘spring showers’. This will percolate down through the soil to the roots. 

    The soil is not static ... it is ever-moving and ever-changing due to the weather and the beneficial activities of invertebrates. 

    There’s no need to buy in worms ..  add plenty of manure and compost ... the worms will appear. 😊 



    Gardening in Central Norfolk on improved gritty moraine over chalk ... free-draining.





  • Pete.8Pete.8 Posts: 11,340
    edited February 2021
    kgatkinsonybfCQrk2 said:
    Yes but the roots will get to the native soil before the worms have time to amend the soil right? 
    No.
    If you turn some soil and disturb worms you will see them wriggle away to safety.
    If you dig near a plant you won't see the roots heading off to safety.
    So the worms can move a whole lot faster than the roots.

    Once you have applied mulch of some kind the worms, bacteria and fungi will all get to work and improve you soil.
    No need to buy worms - they will appear in no time as if by magic when they have something to eat. 

    Not all soil should be improved with mulch and feed.
    It used to be advised when planting trees to incorporate bonemeal and compost. That's no longer recommended. The idea is to force the roots to go and search for food. This creates a much bigger and stronger root system.
    If you fill the planting hole with compost and feed, there's no need for the roots to go searching and the tree will likely become unstable as it has a poor root system.



    Billericay - Essex

    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit.
    Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
  • D0rdogne_DamselD0rdogne_Damsel Posts: 4,184
    Not necessarily helpful for your question, but yesterday I weeded a bed I hadn't touched since about November, I was astonished how much the soil had moved about. I'd had to use some compost that wasn't quite ready in this particular bed, there were several muslin teabags in it, I mean several too, I own a tea shop. Well yesterday all the teabags had come to the top and were congregated in one place, it looked like a nest was being built with them. Obviously all the invertebrates and the rain had moved the soil quite dramatically really. 

    I have also made a not not to bother compost the teabags from now on, obviously not quick at composting.  
    • “Coffee. Garden. Coffee. Does a good morning need anything else?” —Betsy Cañas Garmon
  • Allotment BoyAllotment Boy Posts: 6,774
    The modern advice for tree planting is to dig a square hole twice as wide as you dig deep.  Most plants have different types of roots for water and anchorage,  and more fibrous roots for feeding.  The feeding roots never go very deep but spread wide. 
    The March edition of GW has a good article on  soil by Monty Don, worth a  read. 
    AB Still learning

  • ObelixxObelixx Posts: 30,090
    I never make a hole the same size as the container a plant was in.  Unless I'm planting a whole new bed which has been recently forked, weeded and improved I always make it twice as wide and just a bit deeper then improve the base of the hole with well-rotted manure or garden compost and mix more into the soil going round the sides.   I also loosen the roots of the plant to encourage them to grow out and down.   

    Watering the plant thoroughly, both before and after planting and a gentle firming in will help it settle and stabilise.  Trees get a stake at the base to hold them against strong winds.

    In the veg plot we're moving more and more to the no dig system for annual crops but still do all the above for things like asparagus, artichokes and fruit trees and bushes.
    Vendée - 20kms from Atlantic coast.
    "The price good men (and women) pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men (and women)."
    Plato
  • Poly-anthusPoly-anthus Posts: 155
    We've been in our"new-build" house for nearly 14 years now.  When we moved in, we had the usual builders rubble and horrendous clay soil.  We still have the awful clay soil though I have been trying every year to improve it, but I must say, even after all these years, I'm quite surprised when I see the odd worm!  Worms don't seem to inhabit our borders very much, so I have to do the hard work myself, lol.
  • B3B3 Posts: 27,505
    We have sticky yellow clay subsoil. Even this gets worked on by the worms. Most of the mulch is from  used compost from containers. Any of the subsoil  that reaches the surface due to over enthusiastic digging disappears over winter what with the frost and the worms.
    In London. Keen but lazy.
  • nick615nick615 Posts: 1,487
    kgatkinsonybfCQrk2  One item that isn't mentioned, gleaned from my 1957 Biology lessons, is that nitrogen is one of the main contributory elements for plant growth, and rainfall is very very dilute nitric acid, having absorbed nitrogen as it falls through the atmosphere.  On hitting the ground it then sinks in, and continues to do so until reaching something like clay or rock blocking its path.  On its way down through the soil the rain will also absorb a certain amount of any nutrition it meets, so that as a source of goodness for your plants, it's probably far more complete than you might think.  Just derive comfort from the fact that Nature's got it sussed and your bits of help are only a part of 'the system'?
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