I take it you've never seen a mature one @Ferdinand2000?
Oooh yes.
There was one in the garden of the place my dad grew up, and it is looking as if it is coming to the end of its life after 100+ years. Dad remembered it as a tree from the 1930/40s when he was a small, wiggling boy.
Just allowing another one on the other side to escape from the hedge to keep the identity.
The biggest one I have seen is perhaps 40 feet, and even that is a pretty small tree . It should be far smaller than that for several decades, so any issues can be delegated to children, and there are at least 2 or 3 decades of enjoyment and birdsong whilst it can still be managed easily.
A couple of years go I had to remove a black poplar (dropped a branch on someone's car) there which was roughly 25-30m with a 1.2 diameter trunk that looked like a giant circular saw when eventually sliced. They used a 100ft+ cherrypicker. Now *that* is a "not very small" tree.
There's a fun video of them dealing with it. The swinging about on the cherry picker is an acquired taste.
It should be far smaller than that for several decades, so any issues can be delegated to children, and there are at least 2 or 3 decades of enjoyment and birdsong whilst it can still be managed easily.
That's a big assumption..... I can't see my children taking over any tree maintenance when they wouldn't even be living here
They get bigger than that here, and it's still a big tree for such a small space, especially as @Paul165 wants other plants. Needs careful thought.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
It should be far smaller than that for several decades, so any issues can be delegated to children, and there are at least 2 or 3 decades of enjoyment and birdsong whilst it can still be managed easily.
That's a big assumption..... I can't see my children taking over any tree maintenance when they wouldn't even be living here
I would say let one grow for the enjoyment, and keep an eye on it. Hawthorns are at least amenable to management if needed. When hedges are laid they take a brutal trimming.
If wanting to avoid a slightly-larger (!) tree, my call would be to keep it as a thickish large bush at about 2.5m which would be high enough to make small birds feel secure and encourage them to roost, but still fit comfortably in a small garden. It could end up as a sparrow roost.
Personally I like to see something of the history of a garden still visible, such as a hawthorn to remember a hedge. But that is a personal thing. I love to see small signs of how things have developed; it make me feel that I have a place in history.
“Rivers know this ... we will get there in the end.”
If it was me changing the garden here I would add another couple of small trees to fill the gaps in the hawthorn hedge but pick varieties that are different than hawthorn. Maybe varieties of cotoneaster or crab apple or amelanchier might suit. The conifers behind the hawthorn in the neighbour's garden will be taking a lot of water out of the soil there so it is good to already have something established that can compete with these and hawthorn can be pruned back as much as you like and it will keep regrowing. I'd prune it to be fairly narrow but let them grow up just to be less work. Growing in a crowd like they are should help them not get to their maximum height anyway.
I'm struggling to understand your reasoning @robairdmacraignil. The neighbour's conifers will certainly take massive amounts of moisture, but you're suggesting adding more trees/shrubs. That's feasible in a very wet climate, but even here, where it is very wet, that would be a lot of work.
I've no idea what SEP means.
I've said what I think. I'm off to do something else. Good luck with whatever you decide @Paul165
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Hi @fairygirl. My point about the conifers was in reply to the suggestions that taking the hawthorn out would somehow change the situation with roots already in the ground, when the conifers in the neighbour's garden would still be there. As well as still having the roots of the conifers there, you would also be faced with having to look at them unobstructed by the hawthorns. Personally speaking I would not like to suddenly have just a view of the fence and those conifers and leaving the hawthorn there that are already established would continue to obstruct this and be much nicer to look at. I think having a couple of other small trees to fill the gaps in the line of hawthorn would look better than the view of the fence and the conifers that is currently presented by the gaps. I don't understand why you think planting a couple of small trees in gaps that already exist would be so much work. I have planted young trees in the gaps in hedges and they mostly work out with just a bit of weeding to help them but I suppose you could give them a bit of water in their first year to help them settle in.
"I have planted young trees in the gaps in hedges and they mostly work out"
Not that simple, unless you know what you're doing. The phrase 'mostly work out' is relevant there. Water will always be a problem in getting shrubs/trees established in that site, and I've no idea if the OP lives in a wetter area. Many places are suffering from regular drought in the UK, not to mention the fact that they are often water metered. That makes a huge difference. I'm well aware that my conditions here are totally different, and shoving trees/shrubs in is quite easy for me. He also wants an woodland edge sort of garden. I'm assuming he also wants it to be attractive, which is actually quite difficult to achieve, unless there's lots of room, so a variety of lower growing planting and bulbs, plus taller perennials, would be a good idea.
I know what I'd do, but the OP has only asked for help re the hawthorn. Just replacing it with more trees doesn't seem a very valid solution to me.
It's a place where beautiful isn't enough of a word....
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
"I have planted young trees in the gaps in hedges and they mostly work out"
, so a variety of lower growing planting and bulbs, plus taller perennials, would be a good idea.
I know what I'd do, but the OP has only asked for help re the hawthorn. Just replacing it with more trees doesn't seem a very valid solution to me.
Sorry @fairygirl you don't seem to have understood what I was suggesting. I was not saying replace the hawthorn with more trees. I was saying leave the hawthorn continue to grow and put another couple of small trees in the gaps that exist in the row of hawthorn. This more mixed row of trees would help give the woodland edge look the opening poster was saying they were looking for. The existing hawthorn that I am suggesting to leave grow would not need extra water as they are already established and my suggestion of planting two small trees should not be too demanding on water even in an area where it is metered. The new trees should be able to develop deep roots to fend for themselves fairly quickly and I have planted small trees in gaps in hedge row with no extra water and as I said they mostly work out so a bit of watering in very dry weather when dealing with just two new trees could be worth the extra attention in my opinion.
Posts
There was one in the garden of the place my dad grew up, and it is looking as if it is coming to the end of its life after 100+ years. Dad remembered it as a tree from the 1930/40s when he was a small, wiggling boy.
Just allowing another one on the other side to escape from the hedge to keep the identity.
The biggest one I have seen is perhaps 40 feet, and even that is a pretty small tree
A couple of years go I had to remove a black poplar (dropped a branch on someone's car) there which was roughly 25-30m with a 1.2 diameter trunk that looked like a giant circular saw when eventually sliced. They used a 100ft+ cherrypicker. Now *that* is a "not very small" tree.
There's a fun video of them dealing with it. The swinging about on the cherry picker is an acquired taste.
F
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eygMw9JE9tY
I can't see my children taking over any tree maintenance when they wouldn't even be living here
They get bigger than that here, and it's still a big tree for such a small space, especially as @Paul165 wants other plants. Needs careful thought.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Cool.
I would say let one grow for the enjoyment, and keep an eye on it. Hawthorns are at least amenable to management if needed. When hedges are laid they take a brutal trimming.
If wanting to avoid a slightly-larger (!) tree, my call would be to keep it as a thickish large bush at about 2.5m which would be high enough to make small birds feel secure and encourage them to roost, but still fit comfortably in a small garden. It could end up as a sparrow roost.
Personally I like to see something of the history of a garden still visible, such as a hawthorn to remember a hedge. But that is a personal thing. I love to see small signs of how things have developed; it make me feel that I have a place in history.
The neighbour's conifers will certainly take massive amounts of moisture, but you're suggesting adding more trees/shrubs.
That's feasible in a very wet climate, but even here, where it is very wet, that would be a lot of work.
I've no idea what SEP means.
I've said what I think. I'm off to do something else. Good luck with whatever you decide @Paul165
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Not that simple, unless you know what you're doing. The phrase 'mostly work out' is relevant there.
Water will always be a problem in getting shrubs/trees established in that site, and I've no idea if the OP lives in a wetter area. Many places are suffering from regular drought in the UK, not to mention the fact that they are often water metered. That makes a huge difference. I'm well aware that my conditions here are totally different, and shoving trees/shrubs in is quite easy for me.
He also wants an woodland edge sort of garden. I'm assuming he also wants it to be attractive, which is actually quite difficult to achieve, unless there's lots of room, so a variety of lower growing planting and bulbs, plus taller perennials, would be a good idea.
I know what I'd do, but the OP has only asked for help re the hawthorn. Just replacing it with more trees doesn't seem a very valid solution to me.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...
Sorry @fairygirl you don't seem to have understood what I was suggesting. I was not saying replace the hawthorn with more trees. I was saying leave the hawthorn continue to grow and put another couple of small trees in the gaps that exist in the row of hawthorn. This more mixed row of trees would help give the woodland edge look the opening poster was saying they were looking for. The existing hawthorn that I am suggesting to leave grow would not need extra water as they are already established and my suggestion of planting two small trees should not be too demanding on water even in an area where it is metered. The new trees should be able to develop deep roots to fend for themselves fairly quickly and I have planted small trees in gaps in hedge row with no extra water and as I said they mostly work out so a bit of watering in very dry weather when dealing with just two new trees could be worth the extra attention in my opinion.
I live in west central Scotland - not where that photo is...