Chartered Land Surveyor

Lucid · October 2020

Hi everyone,

I was just curious if anyone has used a chartered land surveyor to properly determine where your property's boundary lines are? I've seen mixed information online as to whether they can do this to any kind of accurate degree, or even if they do, whether it then sets the boundary lines in stone for legal purposes? So if both of those are true it doesn't necessarily seem worth exploring the hire of one. I just wondered if others had found different though?

Lucid

strelitzia32 · October 2020

Yes, I've done this as I needed exact confirmation of a boundary for pricing and liability reasons before purchasing some additional land. Your surveyor will use the physical site, title, drawings and any other evidence to come up with their own expert opinion on boundary positions. This gets sent to the land registry, who then either reject or accept it.

If everything is accepted it becomes a determined decision which is legally binding, set in stone, as part of the land title. Mine was for an amicable purchase rather than a neighbor disagreement, so I got to skip some of the process, but there's a lot of info here:

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/apply-exact-boundary-determined

Lucid · October 2020

Thanks for your replies @strelitzia32 and @philippasmith2 and I will look over the information on the link. Technically not a neighbour dispute but our builder has suggested that our gutters may form the boundary line instead of the house wall. This seems unlikely but I was just curious whether it's the kind of thing a land surveyor may be able to figure out as this can have an impact on how much we need to step in for an extension etc.

Lucid

Wilderbeast · October 2020

Technically the gutter should be the boundary as it shouldn't over hang a boundary line. We had this issue when we built an extension, I am a builder so was aware of this especially as we had very, very, very grumpy neighbours, I knew the neighbours would be out causing a fuss and had to stop him ripping down the guttering 😠😠. The boundary should be whatever sticks out most from your property be that guttering, waste pipes or the foundations which should all be on your side of the boundary.

Lucid · October 2020

@Wilderbeast - that is exactly what our builder has said. This is very interesting as if it is the case then it means several properties in a row have their boundary lines incorrect. Does that seem likely? This has huge implications if it was found to be the case. The property was built around 1920 in case that makes a difference.

Lucid

Wilderbeast · October 2020

I'm not sure how it works on older properties but you have to abide by these rules on new builds or extensions etc. It's something that comes up a lot in my work mainly with the foundations, they have to be 150mm wider than brickwork hence the need to step brickwork in. Oh and tiles can't over hang either

Lucid · October 2020

@Wilderbeast - yes I've found the information all quite a labyrinth so far. Seen references to air space boundaries being different to ground boundaries etc. Maybe that's the category ours fits in to? I'll have to properly check out the link

strelitzia32 provided earlier. Depending on the cost of a surveyor it might be worth exploring anyway. We were going to step in so that nothing was encroaching but if we found our boundary is the original line of gutters it'd mean we don't have to and can continue the line of the original wall.

Lucid

SydRoy · October 2020

A surveyor will only set out the coordinates supplied to him (or her). Be that from old topo maps (often inaccurate), title deeds, land registry etc and as one poster said, will more than likely will remain impartial.
Also, you may find the new boundary robs you of land you originally thought yours.
Boundaries get blurred over the years either deliberately or inadvertently, for example fences get replaced in slightly the wrong place or hedges, which can be feet thick, get ripped up and replaced with fencing.
A surveyor will generally cost between £400 -£600 a day or about £300 for a half day. It works out expensive for what may only be around 50 survey points.
Good luck.

Ferdinand2000 · October 2020

I would expect A ‘determined boundary’ to be done using the usual ‘boundary features’ on the ground, plus probably GPS Coordinates. One important point is that it is a process requiring consent from both owners.

I have always found the Land Registry telephone Helpdesk to be extremely helpful and professional.

Separately, in case anyone does not know, there is a free service called Planning Aid which is linked to the royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors. They do general planning law and policy questions, but would not engage in Civil Law questions (eg boundary disputes) or specific cases.

So you have to frame a general question to answer a particular point you are interested in.

Another good source is The Garden Law forum.

F

Ferdinand2000 · October 2020

Wilderbeast said:

Technically the gutter should be the boundary as it shouldn't over hang a boundary line. We had this issue when we built an extension, I am a builder so was aware of this especially as we had very, very, very grumpy neighbours, I knew the neighbours would be out causing a fuss and had to stop him ripping down the guttering 😠😠. The boundary should be whatever sticks out most from your property be that guttering, waste pipes or the foundations which should all be on your side of the boundary.

Can I suggest a different phrasing @Wilderbeast to emphasise your point? I would Phras it as ‘the gutter should be inside the boundary’ - because the boundary was there first and did not move just because a gutter encroached.

If it has been overhanging for a long enough period of time without complaint, then it gains a right to exist there without moving the land boundary. Similarly if, for example, a third party has been walking across your garden without protest to access their dustbins. the period is probably 20 years.

I once de a neighbour redesign their guttering on an extension because it was overhanging the boundary. They had been over ambitious because they had built right up to the boundary with their house wall, and we’re trying to railroad me. I made them put it on top of the wall instead with appropriate flashing.

My usual comment would be always to leave enough space to maintain the wall from your own land with a narrow scaffold, unless it is absolutely impossible.

Ferdinand

Lucid · October 2020

Thanks for your reply @SydRoy. Yes it does seem like it can be quite a labyrinth and costly - especially considering we didn't get a house survey done as we were trying to save costs. That was mostly because we're doing a lot of structural work anyway so didn't really see the point, considering we got the place at a fairly good discount already. But we'd have to be really sure that we'd have a case to make it worthwhile and I'm not sure if we do. I suspect as we're an older property it's just a case of how they were built originally, before boundaries were cared about so much I guess. All of the other houses have the gutters overhanging on that side so it seems likely it's a separate airspace boundary to the ground. And you're right, we don't want to go to the trouble and then find some of our garden gets taken away! I don't think it would but I can see the risk.

Thanks for your reply @Ferdinand2000. Thanks for the info on Planning Aid and Garden Law, I'll look in to those. The current guttering will have to stay as it looks as though that's how all the houses were built originally, but for the extensions we'll be making sure nothing overhangs the boundary line. We would have to access the side from the neighbour's side regardless, as it's only accessible via their side walkway, through their gate.

Lucid

Chartered Land Surveyor

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