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Arthur Bell Rose training - what to do
strelitzia32
Posts: 758
in Plants
Long post, sorry!
I'm hardly a rose expert and I don't know what to do next. I have a large Arthur Bell that I've been training to a specific effect. Essentially I needed it to grow up a very thin 10" trellis between 2 windows then branch out into lateral canes above the windows, so that the flowers will cover the wall between ground and first floor. I posted about this previously!
After a failed attempt last year where I tried to zig zag it up the trellis to get flowers top to bottom before branching above the windows, I realized that it wouldn't grow enough to train that way and still create laterals.
So this year I cut it back and trained 4 strong canes straight up the trellis and then branched them out on the wall. At this point I'm happy that the wall portion is set for flowers next year. However I just have 8ft of leafy growth on the trellis - expected, but not my final plan.
My next task is to train a new cane to zigzag up in front of the 4 main canes, to encourage some flowers in that initial 8ft. I can't do that until next year now.
However all this has left me with some issues I don't know how to address. I've circled a couple of things in the attached photo.
The white circle is where a brand new cane, very strong growth, has pushed up in the last few weeks. I don't know whether to prune this back so it gives me candidates for new zigzag canes, leave it, or what. It's way too thick to train.
The blue circle is a failed training. It was going to be one of the 4 main canes, but it was growing in the wrong position. I pruned it in totally the wrong place, and now it's growing again. I don't know if I should cut this back, try to use it for zigzag etc.
Finally the yellow circles are examples of very strong growth that's just come on in the last few weeks. Totally the wrong place, but not sure what to do about it.
All advice appreciated! This is going to be a 4 year task by the time it's done, so would prefer not to screw it up now! I just need to tidy up and get flowers on that first 8ft...
It's an oversized photo so I had to reduce the size, hopefully it's clear enough.
I'm hardly a rose expert and I don't know what to do next. I have a large Arthur Bell that I've been training to a specific effect. Essentially I needed it to grow up a very thin 10" trellis between 2 windows then branch out into lateral canes above the windows, so that the flowers will cover the wall between ground and first floor. I posted about this previously!
After a failed attempt last year where I tried to zig zag it up the trellis to get flowers top to bottom before branching above the windows, I realized that it wouldn't grow enough to train that way and still create laterals.
So this year I cut it back and trained 4 strong canes straight up the trellis and then branched them out on the wall. At this point I'm happy that the wall portion is set for flowers next year. However I just have 8ft of leafy growth on the trellis - expected, but not my final plan.
My next task is to train a new cane to zigzag up in front of the 4 main canes, to encourage some flowers in that initial 8ft. I can't do that until next year now.
However all this has left me with some issues I don't know how to address. I've circled a couple of things in the attached photo.
The white circle is where a brand new cane, very strong growth, has pushed up in the last few weeks. I don't know whether to prune this back so it gives me candidates for new zigzag canes, leave it, or what. It's way too thick to train.
The blue circle is a failed training. It was going to be one of the 4 main canes, but it was growing in the wrong position. I pruned it in totally the wrong place, and now it's growing again. I don't know if I should cut this back, try to use it for zigzag etc.
Finally the yellow circles are examples of very strong growth that's just come on in the last few weeks. Totally the wrong place, but not sure what to do about it.
All advice appreciated! This is going to be a 4 year task by the time it's done, so would prefer not to screw it up now! I just need to tidy up and get flowers on that first 8ft...
It's an oversized photo so I had to reduce the size, hopefully it's clear enough.
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But now I'm committed, and I will make nature bend to my will, because that approach always works out really well
I feel like I'm getting close to the effect I want, but I just don't know the best way to continue, especially with all that new growth...
...Hello, I may be able to help you out here, just give me a few minutes to prepare something and I'll get back..
...all other canes should be shortened, 1 foot, 2 foot and upwards, so you get an effect like this below.. albeit this is not a great photo..
..I wonder if this advice might help you in some way... please realise there is no such thing as a ''climbing rose''.. they are all just large arching shrubs, they only give the semblance of climbing because of the way we train them, as they look better that way on support structures or through trees etc.. so they are sold as ''climbing roses'' as it's presumed that's how they will be trained and it gives breeders and vendors another string to their bow.. and so categorised that way by rose authorities everywhere...
...left to their own devices they will form a large shrub arching over, using their prickles [roses don't have thorns strictly speaking]... to latch on to anything nearby, which enables them to weave their way through something... in a garden setting it's up to us to do that... ramblers are the same, forming huge mounds with long stems running along the ground...
...that's what you're really dealing with, so it's up to us to prune and shape this ''large arching shrub'' [i.e. climbing rose], to look it's best on the support it has, whether wall, pergola, arch, trellis.... in your case that means staggering those stems... it's really quite easy once you understand what it is you've got there, I think so.. floribunda roses should be treated the same way of course..
I've attached a larger version of the photo to this post, hopefully you can see some detail. The overall size of the rose makes it hard to get a proper photo, and the forum won't let me post large images.
Let me explain slightly differently. I already have 4 canes trained to the top of the trellis, and then out horizontally along wires. Hopefully you can see part of that at the top of the photo. Those canes extend horizontally about 10ft either way (but don't fit in the photo). So I'm comfortable that will give me the cane basis for shorter new offshoot growth and therefore flowers next year which cover the wall (unless I'm completely wrong about that?).
The bit I'm unsure about is the lower 8ft of growth, where the 4 canes are simply vertical so I can get them up to the horizontal wires.
I think I understand what you mean, and your point about staggered growth makes it clear to me.
The link you posted doesn't show a photo, but if I'm understanding correctly you're saying I need to train multiple canes (in front of the 4 main vertical canes) and prune them at staggered heights, then zigzag the shorter growth that comes off them next year. That will give me flowers lower down in addition to the ones high up on the horizontal?
I already have a handful of canes at varying heights on that lower 8ft. I wonder if I'm better pruning some of this lower growth back, and starting again in parts, so the growth is properly staggered. Although that will add another year to achieving the plan...
Thanks for your help with this, very much appreciated.
Good luck!
..oh ok.. I can see that photo.. I like the way you've managed to train the canes right at the top, left and right, to mirror the pattern of the pale brickwork below it which appears to be arched.. that's good, and you certainly do have sufficient canes there to give you lots of flowering laterals over your windows next Spring..
...I can also see you have some shorter stems lower down and yes you understand me in that you need to keep those shorter ones for staggered effect... even if they grow taller this autumn and shoot up - which they might - choose those stems for pruning next March, back down to give you that staggered look, but don't touch the tall ones going over your brickwork at the top..
..there's no need for zig zagging either, just tie the shorter canes you have with string, to the main canes so you keep that narrow look... all will be well, and you've done a great job...
That's good to know I don't have to zigzag, I was dreading trying to do that all the way up!
One last question: you've said to not touch the horizontals going over the brickwork, but what do I do when they reach the ends of the wall? Do I cut them in autumn, or spring? Is there any technique to this (above/below a bud etc) to keep them productive as main canes?
Thanks again, this has been invaluable.
... just shorten the lengths to keep within the wall.. a sunny day in November is a good time - don't worry about frosts - .. I do nearly all my pruning in November so it all looks neat for winter, unless the hips are special in some way, then take another look in March pruning out any bits of brown dead wood that might have appeared and then you can see from which nodes your rose is shooting out from, and maybe prune back a bit further, also to allow for extension growth in Spring, you might need to take the lengths back a bit so they don't dangle beyond the edges of the wall too much, if they have already reached the limit of what you want... you will have to judge that..