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Magnolia tree

JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
in Problem solving
Hello, 

I have an established Magnolia tree after moving into the property. What is the recommended mulch to place underneath? I've read at least once per year? I would like to landscape the ground underneath differently in the future, perhaps a circular 'rock garden' type area with plants and possibly slate after the circular area instead of grass. I was wondering if this would be feasible with the amount of leaves falling and the difficulty in removing them from slate/gravel or similar. 

I'm new to gardening in case you were wondering! 

Really appreciate your help. 

Thanks
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Posts

  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    Hi, @JAYK8Y9 and welcome to the forum.   :)

    Lucky you, inheriting an established magnolia!  They like plenty of water, and one way to keep the soil moist is to apply an organic mulch in spring, making sure the soil round the magnolia is moist before you put anything on top of it..  Garden compost would do if you have any, but you probably won't have a compost heap going yet... you can buy bags of composted bark from the garden centre, and this would work very well and look good too.  A 2-3" layer extending as far as the branches is ideal, but leave a 6" gap next to the trunk or you can encourage it to rot.

    Removing fallen leaves from slate chippings could be a bit of a pain... I'm not sure if you could use a leaf blower or if it would dislodge the chippings.  Hopefully someone else will advise.
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
    Liriodendron said:
    Hi, @JAYK8Y9 and welcome to the forum.   :)

    Lucky you, inheriting an established magnolia!  They like plenty of water, and one way to keep the soil moist is to apply an organic mulch in spring, making sure the soil round the magnolia is moist before you put anything on top of it..  Garden compost would do if you have any, but you probably won't have a compost heap going yet... you can buy bags of composted bark from the garden centre, and this would work very well and look good too.  A 2-3" layer extending as far as the branches is ideal, but leave a 6" gap next to the trunk or you can encourage it to rot.

    Removing fallen leaves from slate chippings could be a bit of a pain... I'm not sure if you could use a leaf blower or if it would dislodge the chippings.  Hopefully someone else will advise.
    Thanks @Liriodendron, that's very helpful! 
  • BobTheGardenerBobTheGardener Posts: 11,385
    edited August 2020
    If it helps, magnolia leaves are relatively large and don't break down easily, so I would try a leaf blower on blow mode only - don't try and suck them up or you'll likely get some chippings sucked-up too which could damage it.  If you decide to make a bed there, bear in mind that the leaves will remain intact on the ground for months before they rot or are harvested by worms and are pretty good at smothering and killing low-growing plants.  Please be careful of raising the soil level under the tree while landscaping as doing that is a sure way to kill a tree (often takes a few years), so don't raise soil levels by more than a few inches, especially within a metre of the base of the trunk.
    A trowel in the hand is worth a thousand lost under a bush.
  • JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
    BobTheGardener said:
    If it helps, magnolia leaves are relatively large and don't break down easily, so I would try a leaf blower on blow mode only - don't try and suck them up or you'll likely get some chippings sucked-up too which could damage it.  If you decide to make a bed there, bear in mind that the leaves will remain intact on the ground for months before they rot or are harvested by worms and are pretty good at smothering and killing low-growing plants.  Please be careful of raising the soil level under the tree while landscaping as doing that is a sure way to kill a tree (often takes a few years), so don't raise soil levels by more than a few inches, especially within a metre of the base of the trunk.
    Thanks a lot @BobTheGardener
  • JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
    JAYK8Y9 said:
    Liriodendron said:
    Hi, @JAYK8Y9 and welcome to the forum.   :)

    Lucky you, inheriting an established magnolia!  They like plenty of water, and one way to keep the soil moist is to apply an organic mulch in spring, making sure the soil round the magnolia is moist before you put anything on top of it..  Garden compost would do if you have any, but you probably won't have a compost heap going yet... you can buy bags of composted bark from the garden centre, and this would work very well and look good too.  A 2-3" layer extending as far as the branches is ideal, but leave a 6" gap next to the trunk or you can encourage it to rot.

    Removing fallen leaves from slate chippings could be a bit of a pain... I'm not sure if you could use a leaf blower or if it would dislodge the chippings.  Hopefully someone else will advise.
    Thanks @Liriodendron, that's very helpful! 
    @Liriodendron I've decided to lay composted bark mulch as per your advice. Would it be OK to place this towards the end of September? My plan is to dig down a few inches and then water the soil. I will then place the mulch. Do I need to put down a weed membrane. Thanks for your help and I'm sorry if that's a daft question! 
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    edited September 2020
    Hi @JAYK8Y9.  No questions are daft when you're learning!  :)

    Magnolias have shallow root systems, so you don't really want to be digging too much around them.  That's one reason for applying a mulch - so you suppress the weeds and don't have to disturb the magnolia digging them out.  (If you already have established weeds like dandelions or couch grass, they won't be killed by the mulch and you'll need to get rid of them by very careful spot digging, or by using a weedkiller like Glyphosate ("Roundup" or similar) according to the instructions.  Weedkiller would need a dry day, and doesn't work well unless the weeds are growing strongly - ie in spring or summer.)

    Assuming the ground under the magnolia is clear of weeds, it's possible you could mulch with composted bark in late September, provided the soil is really moist.  That's the reason why spring is recommended - winter rain will usually have soaked deeply into the soil.  If you mulch over dry soil, the magnolia may suffer as you "lock in" the dryness.  Best not to lay a weed membrane first.  The bark will improve the structure of the soil as it rots down (you'll need to top it up periodically), and will suppress weeds from germinating underneath it provided it's a couple of inches thick.  (Weed membrane stops the interaction between the soil organisms and the bark.)  Look out for little seedling weeds germinating in the bark eventually, though... you can just pull them out.   :)

    If the ground under the magnolia is currently lawn, or weeds, you could mark out the area you want to mulch and cover it temporarily with something to exclude the light, like black plastic or cardboard, to kill what's underneath.  Come to think of it, you could leave the cardboard under your bark mulch as extra protection against weeds - I'm currently making a "no dig" vegetable bed on the "lawn" here, just covering the grass with overlapping sheets of cardboard covered with a thick layer of compost.  The cardboard eventually rots down...  You can check out that technique on line if you're interested - Charles Dowding has lots of videos and information. 

    Happy gardening!  Post a photo when your magnolia flowers and we can all admire it.  
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
  • fidgetbonesfidgetbones Posts: 17,618
    Snowdrops flower well under a deciduous magnolia.  You can just place the bulbs around before you put a thick bark mulch on top. They will flower through the mulch and are happy in the dry conditions through the summer, to re emerge the year after.  They multiply each year, the main problem is digging up a clump to give away because of the magnolia roots, but some bulbs get pushed to the surface and are loose, and I pick those off to give away.
    From the left is a deciduous Magnolia soulangeana, a camellia, then an evergreen Magnolia grandiflora. The snowdrops run all along that border.
    The arum with the marbled leaves also gives early colour then dies back in summer. Note they are near the edge of the rain shadow, not up against the trunks of the trees.
  • JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
    Liriodendron said:
    Hi @JAYK8Y9.  No questions are daft when you're learning!  :)

    Magnolias have shallow root systems, so you don't really want to be digging too much around them.  That's one reason for applying a mulch - so you suppress the weeds and don't have to disturb the magnolia digging them out.  (If you already have established weeds like dandelions or couch grass, they won't be killed by the mulch and you'll need to get rid of them by very careful spot digging, or by using a weedkiller like Glyphosate ("Roundup" or similar) according to the instructions.  Weedkiller would need a dry day, and doesn't work well unless the weeds are growing strongly - ie in spring or summer.)

    Assuming the ground under the magnolia is clear of weeds, it's possible you could mulch with composted bark in late September, provided the soil is really moist.  That's the reason why spring is recommended - winter rain will usually have soaked deeply into the soil.  If you mulch over dry soil, the magnolia may suffer as you "lock in" the dryness.  Best not to lay a weed membrane first.  The bark will improve the structure of the soil as it rots down (you'll need to top it up periodically), and will suppress weeds from germinating underneath it provided it's a couple of inches thick.  (Weed membrane stops the interaction between the soil organisms and the bark.)  Look out for little seedling weeds germinating in the bark eventually, though... you can just pull them out.   :)

    If the ground under the magnolia is currently lawn, or weeds, you could mark out the area you want to mulch and cover it temporarily with something to exclude the light, like black plastic or cardboard, to kill what's underneath.  Come to think of it, you could leave the cardboard under your bark mulch as extra protection against weeds - I'm currently making a "no dig" vegetable bed on the "lawn" here, just covering the grass with overlapping sheets of cardboard covered with a thick layer of compost.  The cardboard eventually rots down...  You can check out that technique on line if you're interested - Charles Dowding has lots of videos and information. 

    Happy gardening!  Post a photo when your magnolia flowers and we can all admire it.  
    @Liriodendron Thanks for taking the time out of your Saturday for such a great detailed reply, you're so helpful and I appreciate your input!

    I'll attach pictures of the area as it is today. There's something growing underneath, I'm not sure if they're weeds. There is also some grass around the outer perimeter.

    So from your reply is sounds like its best to die off the grass before placing the mulch? I'm hoping to mulch the whole area in the pictures. 

    20200905-101406 20200905-101419 20200905-101415
  • JAYK8Y9JAYK8Y9 Posts: 7
    fidgetbones said:
    Snowdrops flower well under a deciduous magnolia.  You can just place the bulbs around before you put a thick bark mulch on top. They will flower through the mulch and are happy in the dry conditions through the summer, to re emerge the year after.  They multiply each year, the main problem is digging up a clump to give away because of the magnolia roots, but some bulbs get pushed to the surface and are loose, and I pick those off to give away.
    From the left is a deciduous Magnolia soulangeana, a camellia, then an evergreen Magnolia grandiflora. The snowdrops run all along that border.
    The arum with the marbled leaves also gives early colour then dies back in summer. Note they are near the edge of the rain shadow, not up against the trunks of the trees.
    Thanks @fidgetbones
  • LiriodendronLiriodendron Posts: 8,328
    @JAYK8Y9 - you're very welcome.   :)

    Thanks for the pictures, which help to clarify what you've got there.  Not a lot of grass, by the look of things, which isn't surprising given the lack of sunlight under the magnolia - but plenty of little weeds, which include a lot of violets, and moss.  I can see a couple of smallish dandelions near the tree's trunk but I doubt if there are many other "problem" weeds there.  

    You might get away with laying THICK mulch over there without killing the weeds first, but it'll need to be thick enough to exclude light or they'll carry on growing.  And you'll need to get rid if the dandelions cos they grow through anything... 

    At the edge of the area where there's concrete edging, I think you might have difficulty getting the mulch thick enough, without removing grass/weeds first.

    Lovely magnolia!
    Since 2019 I've lived in east Clare, in the west of Ireland.
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